Boston Red Sox Rise go West - Nat Gordon talks Padres, Angels, Diamondbacks

Boston Red Sox building a better season with Nat Gordon, Sports Analyst @BOSSportsGordo

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. I'm Mark Corbett host, and with me today I've got a very special guest and that's Mr. Nat Gordon. What do you wanna know about the Red Sox? He is the man to go to 

[00:00:11] Mark Corbett: Welcome, Matt. How you doing, man? 

[00:00:12] Nat Gordon: Not too bad. How 

[00:00:13] Mark Corbett: about yourself? I am doing great. I'm doing fantastic. What is your handle 

[00:00:17] Nat Gordon: with Twitter bud? So on Twitter, I'm Boston Sports Gordo. You can find me @ BosSportsGordo. 

[00:00:24] Mark Corbett: There you go, boys and girls. And man, I love what you do. You, you are not just about the Red Sox.

[00:00:29] Mark Corbett: I mean, you have, you cover everything when it comes to Boston and that general area as far as sports. I know you're suffering through the Celtics right now, but , that's okay cuz you got the Red Sox and they, they look like they're doing well right now. They think look 

[00:00:43] Nat Gordon: like they're moving up. Yeah.

[00:00:45] Nat Gordon: Socks are, uh, they're. Overperforming a lot of people's expectations, I mean, obviously, you know, the al East is insanely competitive, so they've been in and out of last place if you want to, if you want to go that route. They've been hovering around two to five, [00:01:00] six games above 500 for a few weeks now, and they look like they can compete with anybody.

[00:01:06] Nat Gordon: I mean, they may not be. Groundbreakers, but , they are giving us a a team to watch like some watchable baseball this summer, which I think a lot of people didn't think would happen. 

[00:01:15] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. I, myself and others have been sitting back and being critical of the front office decisions, everything.

[00:01:22] Mark Corbett: Looking at Mookie, looking at Xander, go back and all that. But you know, when you look at the Al East, it is the al Beast because. There's no other division that has everybody above 500. Yeah. And the good news is we get to , , share the bounty, if you will, across all of the MLB this year because of the balance schedule.

[00:01:45] Mark Corbett: I, and I love it. I mean, you guys are, are spending a lot of good time right now out there on the West Coast and it's been an interesting week thus far. 

[00:01:55] Nat Gordon: Yeah, I just finished up a series in San Diego against Old Fran Xander [00:02:00] Bogaerts, uh, took two out of three there. , they looked pretty good. , you want to talk about, , issues with the front office , and mistakes that they've made?

[00:02:06] Nat Gordon: Well, one of those mistakes definitely looks like,, giving 10 million to Cory Kluber, who has really not lived up to preseason expectations. He was a lot better for you guys last year than he's been for us this year. And the biggest issue there has been the walks last year. Yeah. With Tampa Bay. He was in the 99th percentile in walk rate.

[00:02:25] Nat Gordon: And this year with the Red Sox. He's somewhere in the thirties. I think I might have seen 38th percentile today. And that's a steep drop off. When you are,, when your fastball is sitting, 87, 88 89. You've gotta be able to locate it. And if you're not gonna locate it, you're gonna put guys on base. He allows a lot of hard contact, especially when he leaves balls over in the middle of the plate.

[00:02:47] Nat Gordon: Oh yeah. And , it's custom. , and yesterday you walked three runners, three batters in the first inning and, , allowed four in the first. And it was that, was that, so the Red Sox this year have pretty much, they've been good in games [00:03:00] where starting pitchers have been able to keep them somewhat competitive.

[00:03:03] Nat Gordon: They've taken steps to improving their rotation. Guys have gotten healthier and they've moved Nick Pivetta to the bullpen. , Corey Kluber will get at least one more start this coming Sunday, but we'll see what happens after that. Garrett Whitlock's coming back and we'll have six starters at that point.

[00:03:19] Nat Gordon: So we'll see what happens. But yeah, we got some late night games coming up this week. I know we got three in a row against the Angels. All 9 38 starts. So for all of us Night owls, it'll, it'll be fun, but a lot of people don't like those. I, I'm, I'm a rare breed. I like the West Coast games.

[00:03:35] Mark Corbett: Well, you can stay up. You're young. Exactly. I'll watch you the next morning too. No, I'm excited. Anytime we get out out there too. And my gosh, anytime you get to play the Angels, you can see some top talent with, , a pitcher like Ohtani with Mike Trout. I mean, two legendary players right there. But I see you guys, you know, continue on with this.

[00:03:56] Mark Corbett: I'm, I've gotta tell you though, I was concerned when I [00:04:00] saw, I mean, I'm always a turn with any team. One of the players leave. You wonder what they're gonna do and what was it? We had, uh, Michael Wachu, he had Rich Hill and Nate Eovaldi and Nate's one of my favorite pitchers of all time. Anyway, so when I saw those three guys go, and especially Hill and Eovaldi, I was like, E how, how's this gonna go?

[00:04:19] Mark Corbett: What are you going to be able to do? But, you know, and you've got a few injuries too. So what does that starting rotation look like and what do you think is the impact of 

[00:04:28] Nat Gordon: those guys going? Yeah, I mean, you, you take a look at those three and then I'll, I want to talk about another departure, not from this past year, but from two years ago at Eduardo Rodriguez.

[00:04:37] Nat Gordon: So the combination of those four guys, they've all pitched really, really well this year. , But the socks have still had some bright spots in the rotation. Chris Sale has really looked like himself for the better part of a month now. Like the velocities there. The sliders, he like his location was, which was brutal.

[00:04:53] Nat Gordon: Early on , his back, , he's looking the part, I mean the camera angle. When he was facing Juan Soto the other night, and [00:05:00] he had two strikes in him, the nesting camera panned to him and he was angry and grunting on the mount, and then he proceeds to blow 98 right by Soto's bat. , , he really did look the part there letting him throw 110 pitches, two outings in a row, like he looks the part, so he looks good.

[00:05:15] Nat Gordon: James Paxton has been a really pleasant surprise. He's only made two starts, but he's looked good in both of those starts, and they've seen some good things from Brian Bellos kept, runs off the board. , he's been throwing five innings. Most starts, he's gotten up to six, but in his last, his eras in the high twos and his last four starts hasn't allowed more than a couple earned runs.

[00:05:35] Nat Gordon: He's gotta get the walks down. He's, he walked, I believe five guys in his last start. But, , he hasn't pitched that well in cold weather. , just some kinks to work out. , he's a young pitcher, but he looks really good. So those are three guys that, that you can really build off of. But, after that , it's been rocky waters.

[00:05:50] Nat Gordon: Tanner Houck is a fascinating guy to watch because the first time through the order, he's quite, literally better than anyone. [00:06:00] In the game. , he doesn't. It's 1, 2, 3 innings smooth, sailing easy, every single time. , , his op p s against, I believe is in the 300 s first time through the order.

[00:06:07] Nat Gordon: It's crazy. But as soon as you get to the second time, guys are hitting like 3 20, 3 30 off him, and third time through the order, it's even worse. , they're trying to work things out with him. They're trying to get him to work on a couple of new pitches that, you know, he, he got introduced to this year.

[00:06:25] Nat Gordon: , it's been up and down. But , his highs have been really high. It's, it, , you feel like there's a good starter there. A lot of Red Sox Nation wants him to go to the bullpen because on the surface you see a guy who dominates for two, three innings and , you think that's a reliever and on the surface you'd be right.

[00:06:44] Nat Gordon: I, my personal opinion is you build a guy up like that, you see the stuff is there. , you try to approach every avenue to make that guy. A good starter cuz if you can even remotely bring what he brings for the first [00:07:00] couple innings into innings four through six, like you're gonna have a really good starter there.

[00:07:04] Nat Gordon: It's just not, development is not linear. These guys take time. So , I personally like that they've kept him in the rotation, but , I don't know how much longer he could remain there. If they choose to stick it out with Kluber, how could be the guy to go to the bullpen? And then they've got Garrett Whitlock coming back.

[00:07:22] Nat Gordon: Yeah. , , he'll be the last guy in the rotation. Hopefully once, once things get sorted out. And , I'm really high on him as a starter. He's been up and down. I, I think he's got the stuff to do it, but we really haven't seen very much from him because every time he's had a shot in the rotation, he's gotten hurt.

[00:07:39] Nat Gordon: So this will be basically attempt number three at it. A lot of Sox Nation wants him in the bullpen too, because we've seen what he can do out there. , I think the future is bright for Garrett Whitlock in the rotation. As long as he can stay healthy. Obviously that's a big if at this point. He hasn't to this point, but , I'm excited to see what he's gonna bring.

[00:07:58] Nat Gordon: I think he's going to [00:08:00] be back either this weekend or , shortly after this weekend. Well, I hope 

you're 

[00:08:07] Mark Corbett: getting back sooner. There's no doubt you, I know as being a Rays fan, I know what injuries can do. When you're looking at some pitchers that are out right now, it's brutal. It is.

[00:08:15] Mark Corbett: I keep waiting for Glasnow to come back. Rasmussen going down and wondering how soon Drew's gonna be back. He could be 60 days. You never know. And that poor guy's had two Tommy Johns before all this. So there's a lot of injuries and there's the expectations of those bodies is so much you think of what pitchers are throwing today compared to 20 years ago.

[00:08:37] Mark Corbett: , the heat that's expected, , What , their bodies are, they're having to do is just seems so much more. And therefore it seems like injuries tend to increase as, as well. But, , stepping away from pitching for a minute and another injury, I like this. You could cover this, I think on your, what is that Subs that you have Beyond the monster?

[00:08:56] Nat Gordon: Yeah, beyond the monster. They, they've got a really good group of guys there [00:09:00] writing, writing for them, and it's, it's really started to take off it, it took off. Really in the off season, cuz Chris Henrique, who, who owns the page, really has taken a big step forward as a reporter. He's, he's really killing it on the beat.

[00:09:13] Nat Gordon: So if you don't, if you don't follow him yet, follow at Chris Henrique, h e n r i Q u e. He's a really good follow for all Red Sox fans. Okay. Well, 

[00:09:22] Mark Corbett: I'll tell you, I was looking, I think you wrote the article on, , Duvall and Du Duran, and I was like, what? I, I saw Adam Duvall and I said, he's Adrian. And I said, oh my gosh, man.

[00:09:31] Mark Corbett: Such a critical player. But then tell me about the guy who came up, who stepped up. Oh, 

[00:09:36] Nat Gordon: Jarren Duran has been such a bright spot. I mean, Adam Duval is lighting the world on fire for maybe it might have only been like a week and a half. He had like a 1500 o p s, but going down for, for a sliding catch in Detroit goes down and breaks, breaks his wrist.

[00:09:54] Nat Gordon: He's targeting a June 9th return. We'll see if that actually happens. And a lot of Red Sox [00:10:00] fans thought that was that for the season when he went down cuz they've already lost they're , best right-handed bat with Trevor's story. Your new best right-handed bat goes down too.

[00:10:08] Nat Gordon: You really don't have that much right-handed talent. But even though he is not right-handed, Jarren Duran has come up and he's lighting the world on fire. This is a guy who was, a consensus top 30 to 40 major league baseball prospect at his peak a couple years ago. Came up and struggled, in all facets of the game.

[00:10:28] Nat Gordon: He couldn't hit the high fast ball. , the book on him came out fairly quickly and, , he struggled at the plate in his defense, even though he's incredibly fast. He was learning center field on the go. He was, , he was an infielder when he first, came into professional baseball.

[00:10:44] Nat Gordon: He was an infielder in college, so the center field defense was not good for two years in the bigs. But this year, , he is in the high eighties for percentile and outs above average. He looks the part, his first step has [00:11:00] gotten better. He looks more prepared before the pitch is thrown, and he's talked about that and.

[00:11:04] Nat Gordon: And the coaching staff has talked about how important that's been for him, and he's just a much more confident guy. , he's been one of the best hitters in baseball since his call up. I , if you look at the numbers, there's really no getting around it. Obviously there's gonna be some regression there cuz you can't just hit 3 50, 360 forever.

[00:11:22] Nat Gordon: But , he's lit the world on fire and , I'm making it my mission. I need to get him to the All-Star game in Seattle if he gets to the All-Star game in Seattle. Rob Bradford Odyssey Sports at @bradfo. Give him a follow too. Follow at the bra @bradfo underscore show for the podcast. Uh, he, he will be sending me to the All Star game if JarrenDuran makes it so, oh, wow.

[00:11:44] Nat Gordon: We gotta get JarrenDuran to the All-Star game. Well, I'm excited 

[00:11:47] Mark Corbett: about it from what I've seen and certainly what you've portrayed as well. And so I was, you know, Duval go out and there's concern. You see Trevor's story go out and there's concern. So I probably, a lot of fans in the beginning think, oh my gosh, what the heck are [00:12:00] we gonna do this season?

[00:12:01] Mark Corbett: And while you know you're not, There's not a winning percentage of 800. I know nobody has that now, but there is a consistent, you know, growth and even now starting out there with the Padres this week. Oh, wow. I, I loved it. Two of my favorite guys from all town, whether you know, the Red Sox, Xander, Bogaerts, and Raphael Devers, and you know those two, I looked at those almost like the way I looked at the Houston Astros with Altuve and Correa two guys that were practically buddies on the field.

[00:12:31] Mark Corbett: They seemed to have such great communication. So when Bogaerts was no longer part of that equation, You know, I, I, I wasn't sure where things were going to go. I thought, oh my gosh, who are these guys? He, this front office of the Reds not keeping Bogaerts. And I thought, well, hi Bloom is like a student, or, uh, what do I wanna say?

[00:12:51] Mark Corbett: Somebody from as far as learned from when he was with time with the raise and the raise, usually trade when somebody's almost [00:13:00] starting to decline. You know, they, they've come up here and they say, I don't know that they'll be able to repeat that next year. So I was a little concerned seeing Bogaerts go and you know, you look at comparisons, Bogaerts has got what, maybe he's four years older, I believe, than uh, Devers.

[00:13:17] Mark Corbett: So even if you're looking at long-term contract, cuz I think both of them got 11 year contracts. Devers got an 11 years with the Red Sox and then of course Bogaerts with, uh, with the Padres and Bogaerts. He's not been Bogaerts vote this year. He's the padre. He's suffering. I mean, the whole time that he faced you guys, he didn't have a single hit over three games.

[00:13:42] Mark Corbett: And prior to that he was coming up short too, I think for like several games before that as tough times. So as much as I was critical, you know, of seeing what was going on, letting Bo like go with Bogaerts, maybe it was the right call. 

[00:13:58] Nat Gordon: I think you can look at it in two [00:14:00] different lights because the way I look at it, and the way a lot of Sox fans look at it is they lowballed him with a contract offer in spring training of 2022, and he was open to an extension.

[00:14:12] Nat Gordon: He would've signed something fair and they practically insulted him with that offer. Yeah. And, and Bogaerts will tell you that , he knew when that offer was made. That that was that. And he, this was gonna be his last year in Boston. I, I do not fault. I never did fault them for not giving him 280 million like the Padres did in 11 years, like you said, it's just not good business.

[00:14:35] Nat Gordon: Even if he's , your franchise guy, , if someone's gonna pay him, something like that, you know, 11 years for a guy in his thirties, , that's tough. And yeah, , he's struggled in after a good April. He's really, really, really struggled. In May, like you said, he didn't have a hit the entire series, ?

[00:14:50] Nat Gordon: I don't think that the Red Sox front office was all that enthused about the future of Xander. I mean, just based off of the [00:15:00] reporting that we got in the off season. They just were never, they really never were aggressive about trying to bring him back and like there were dif, there were different reports about them insulting Xander during negotiations.

[00:15:14] Nat Gordon: I just don't really think that there was a desire on the Red Sox part. To bring him back. And it was obviously very different with Devers. You know, a guy who's Oh yeah, you know, 26 and he's special with the bat, hits the ball as hard as anyone in the league. Stuff like that translates into, into the mid thirties.

[00:15:34] Nat Gordon: And, you know, his defense has gotten a lot better this year. I, I, they were a lot more confident and a lot more aggressive with him than they were with Xander, and I don't think anyone would tell you even at the time that that. That that was a mistake because we all, I think we all knew that Devers was the superior player and like obviously with age, it just makes the decision that much easier if you have to pick one.[00:16:00] 

[00:16:00] Nat Gordon: I think a lot. I think Red Sox fans wished that we didn't have to pick just one. I mean, they had three franchise guys with Mookie Xander & Devers and now. It's all said and done. They've all gotten their long-term deals and only one of them was with the Red Sox. I, I think a lot of Red Sox would've understood if you couldn't keep all three, but I think people would've thought that you could keep two and maybe the other one should have been ooky bets.

[00:16:29] Mark Corbett: , I believe anybody would say that cuz Mookiee, , while , he's maintained his credibility as a great player. I think there's a certain enthusiasm with the persona that he gives. Right now we've, in Tampa, we've got Randy Arozarena. There's, there's an excitement with him, with Jose Siri.

[00:16:43] Mark Corbett: There's an excitement with him. And I think Mookiee bets wherever they, he goes, There's going to be that excitement and it's something he communicates with fandom with, with everybody that's in the stands that day, and it goes beyond actual performance on the field. So [00:17:00] that was, to me, that was one of the reasons I, as much as any, I hate to see him go from the Red Sox.

[00:17:05] Mark Corbett: I thought that's a lot of vitality to go out the door. So, yeah. But you guys are looking good. I mean, tell me something else. What, what's the future like? What's your farm system saying? What's that? I'm telling you, anything there that you're seeing on the horizon? 

[00:17:19] Nat Gordon: Yeah, I mean the farm, you know, particularly compared to where it was three and four years ago, it's, it's a lot better.

[00:17:27] Nat Gordon: We had thought that there would be a little bit more pitching depth in the upper miners this year. They've got Brian Mata, Brandon Walter and Chris Murphy up there who we, I think a lot of Red Sox fans thought would take that next step this year. But they, all three of them have struggled. The up and coming pitcher to watch in the Red Sox system is Shane Drohan.

[00:17:47] Nat Gordon: He started the season in AA and I think through, I think he had like just six starts there this year. Bef he was so dominant, they let him, they called him up to AAA and he is, he, he made one [00:18:00] start there and it was, it was up and down. But I, he's a guy to watch cuz he, he's some, someone that the Red Sox are pretty high on right now.

[00:18:07] Nat Gordon: He's at this point, kind of cemented himself as the top pitching prospect in the organization. , but yeah, , the same olds are same old, like Marcelo Meyer is killing it in single a, , he's looking at a mid, maybe, maybe even early summer promotion to, , double A Portland. They've got Miguel Bleis who's injured at the moment, but he's, he's playing in the States for the first time this year.

[00:18:28] Nat Gordon: , he's a long ways away, , but the Red Sox are really high on him. Like he could be that five tool talent that comes up in. , with his swagger, shocks, shocks, major league baseball, but that, that's a ways away. Um, and then they've got, they got Sadan. Raphaella who is fantastic defensively. He's playing in AA right now.

[00:18:48] Nat Gordon: He could look at a, at a call up to AAA at some point during the summer if his, if his bat comes along at a little bit more. He's one of those defense first guys. , he plays a gold glove caliber center fielder. They, a lot of people think he would be [00:19:00] that if called up today, it's just as bad, isn't ready.

[00:19:03] Nat Gordon: , still up and down., I think a lot of people are higher on him than I am, but I'm, I'm willing to be open about it. And guys, bats develop at different paces. I mean, if that develops into anything, then, then he is someone to watch. And then I guess the last guys I'll, I'll touch up on are the, are the guys they got for Christian Vasquez, uh, this past mid-season.

[00:19:25] Nat Gordon: That trade is. I mean, it looks to be a win-win for both teams. You know, the Astros get their World Series out of it. Christian Vazquez catches a no-hitter in that World Series, but the Red Sox get two good prospects out of it. And Manuel Valdez has, has come up to the bigs this year and he's looked really good.

[00:19:40] Nat Gordon: He hit a three run Homer to practically win the Red Sox a game in this series. And then you've got, will you Abreu, who's looked really, really good in in AAA so far. He's on the 40 man roster this year. The Red Sox protected him from the Rule five draft, , and he is, he's looking really, really good in Triple A , I don't know [00:20:00] if he's like going to be like a top hundred prospect type guy, but they've got two guys there , who show that they are big league caliber players at some point in their careers.

[00:20:10] Nat Gordon: And , the front office has made their fair share of mistakes, but getting two big league caliber guys. Who with no experience. So you get the full six years to get those for a half a year of Christian Vasquez is pretty impressive. 

[00:20:24] Mark Corbett: Well let me, let me go back to the main club for a moment.

[00:20:28] Mark Corbett: And again, looking at the I l I know Christian Arroyo right now, he's out for a bit. Uh, you'll see Yu Chang and I think Justin Turner as well, or is he back yet? What's going 

[00:20:39] Nat Gordon: on with Justin? He. I think they, they've said he is probably gonna be back today. They said maybe Sunday or Monday. So hoping for tonight.

[00:20:47] Nat Gordon: Well, and 

[00:20:48] Mark Corbett: as you were around ever seeing a moment ago, the guys that you have in your lineup this past few days, I mean, they've been strong, you know, and, and I wanted to ask you about Yes. Tell me a little bit more about him. 

[00:20:59] Nat Gordon: Oh, he's [00:21:00] been, he's been, everything advertised some more. I mean, the guy. Literally doesn't swing and miss, he rarely strikes out.

[00:21:08] Nat Gordon: He, he walks a ton hits. He's hitting 300 with a mid-high 800 s o p s. He, he bats in the middle of that lineup and gives the, he's basically ha hits second this year. They swapped him endeavors. They originally had Devers to Yoshida fourth, but Yoshida's really capable of doing anything with the bat. I mean, he's a, he's a small guy, but don't sleep on his power.

[00:21:33] Nat Gordon: I mean, he. He had that game in Milwaukee where he hit two homers in the same inning. One of 'em being a grand slam when he is, when he's hot. He is crazy hot. And they're really outside of maybe like the first week of his big league career, maybe first two weeks. Like he doesn't really go cold, like cold, cold.

[00:21:54] Nat Gordon: Yoshida is still getting on base at least once a day, maybe twice. It's like he's walking and it's like, oh, [00:22:00] you think he hasn't really done much, but he's actually one for three and walked. So he's, his defense isn't gonna light the world on fire, but that's why you play him in left field with the small left field, with the monster.

[00:22:10] Nat Gordon: There he is learning how to play that well. , the bat is there and yeah, the guy, , he's kind of a fan favorite here at this point.

[00:22:19] Mark Corbett: I can appreciate that. You know, with the new, he's, this is his first year. I mean it was, , I'm always questioning, okay, you're, cause he's an international, right?

[00:22:25] Mark Corbett: They, as far as bringing him in an international signing and. I'm always concerned, well, is this somebody that is gonna be comfortable in a whole new environment, a whole new league, if you will. And he obviously has done well with it. I, I've seen others who haven't, so , I'm really glad to see him doing so well with you guys.

[00:22:46] Mark Corbett: And I love what you said about getting on bass because some of my favorite players. That is key. , again, forgive me for reflecting back on the Rays. Look at a Yandy Diaz. Yandy Diaz. So good. There's a reason [00:23:00] that he's usually first in the lineup and. One, he's gonna get on base, you know, two, he can make a pitcher work hard.

[00:23:08] Mark Corbett: It, it may, the second up at bat may have the pitcher at 7, 8, 9, 10. He may be coming up the, with the 10th pitch for the, the batter that's coming up. He Yandy may have done that. Brandon Lowe. He was really suffering for several games and a lot of us questioned what was gonna happen with him.

[00:23:25] Mark Corbett: But he's coming through now and you find players like that who get on base, whether it be for a walk, but also can wear a pitcher out. 

[00:23:34] Nat Gordon: And I don't, that's exactly it. That is exactly it. Wearing pitchers out is what makes the tough teams tough. That's what's made the Rays tough this year, and that's the difference between.

[00:23:47] Nat Gordon: Last year's Red Sox team, which struck out a lot, had a lot of quick at bats, a lot of left on base, get guys, get a couple guys on base start netting, and then you'd see three straight strikeouts. This year's team, they [00:24:00] grind pitchers out. You get ace caliber pitchers, all-star pitchers who aren't making it beyond the fifth inning because they're throwing 25, 30 pitches in the first sitting.

[00:24:10] Nat Gordon: We've seen it a bunch of times. You know the socks. Pitching has held them back a little bit, but the offense, grinding out starters like that has been something we've seen from, from the beginning of April till now. And I think you, you could agree with this. I think the best teams that we've seen over the last, I mean probably in our entire lives watching baseball, are the teams that are just a pain in the ass patient.

[00:24:37] Nat Gordon: Swing it at not just strikes, but their, but their pitches. Don't just look for a pitch that's in the zone to swing at you. You wait for your pitch. Yep. And you don't chase. If you don't chase, you make guys, throw you pitches to hit. And that's something that I've been really happy to see with the Red Sox this year.

[00:24:55] Nat Gordon: All of the best Red Sox teams in my lifetime have done that and the worst ones haven't. [00:25:00] It's, it's pretty consistent. 

[00:25:03] Mark Corbett: Wow. Well, I wish you continued success with your Red Sox and still looking at that West Coast venture that you are having right now to see you're coming up the angels and then the Diamondbacks.

[00:25:15] Mark Corbett: Any insights, anything you wanna offer us? What you see, uh, that will happen during those two series? 

[00:25:21] Nat Gordon: Well, with the Angels, they're missing, missing Ohtani and Sandoval, so they're getting the three back arms in their rotation. So they, they lucked out there and only one lefty. Uh, I definitely feel better about the Red Sox lineup when they're facing varieties.

[00:25:35] Nat Gordon: You know, guys like Tristan Costas, Jarran much, much better with right-handers on the mound. A little, little nervous about Arizona. They're a, they're a pesky team. Oh yeah, they're, they're good. And I, it's, people have not given them their due yet. Maybe it's cuz they're on the west coast, I don't know. But they're 27 and 20 and I feel like nobody knows or talks [00:26:00] about it.

[00:26:01] Nat Gordon: And they should. Cuz that's a, that's a damn good team. And coming into the year, you know, Corbin Carol coming up, like they, they released Madison Bumgarner. Like they, they told him to go home and it's worked out. Like they're a, they're a team, they're a fighting team. They are good. So that's gonna be, that's gonna be a test because I feel like they're kind of similar to the socks in that sense.

[00:26:24] Nat Gordon: , they're not necessarily the most talented team in the world, but they'll, but they'll fight you and we'll see. We'll see how that one goes. I'm excited for that one. This coming weekend. 

[00:26:32] Mark Corbett: Yeah, this , should be exciting. I wanna make one more parallel. I think this is something you tweeted recently and I think it was between John Smoltz and Corey Kluber.

[00:26:42] Mark Corbett: Hey, cuz. What brought that my mind? You said the word release in my mind went straight to Corey Kluber. Tell us about your comparison between those two pitchers. 

[00:26:50] Nat Gordon: Yeah. So in 2009, and John Smoltz was recovering from surgery in the Red Sox picked him up to rehab him, you know, try to [00:27:00] figure out how to get him on the mountain in the middle of the summer and hope that you can squeeze a little bit of juice out of him at the very end of his career.

[00:27:05] Nat Gordon: So they did it. They signed him, they rehabbed him. He came back in the middle of the summer and he got eight starts, and I believe the e r a was 8.33. And, uh, Theo Epstein flew out to the, to wherever the Red Sox were on the road to, to personally. Face-to-face, you know, give John Smoltz respect. He's a Hall of Fame pitcher.

[00:27:23] Nat Gordon: Yeah. Cy Young Award winner. But like, you're not, if you're not gonna help the team, like we just have to do what we have to do. And so they, yeah, , they release, , they dfa him and eventually released him. Corey Kluber is now made nine starts for the Red Sox. He's got is he, I believe is 6 26. It's somewhere around there if it's not exactly that.

[00:27:43] Nat Gordon: , and to be honest with you, it should be higher. Cause you led in five runs yesterday. Only one of them was earned. But, you know, watching the game, like , they were all on him. They were only honored because of an error that he made. So, so it's 6 26 should be higher. If nine starts at this point, the [00:28:00] velocity is not there.

[00:28:00] Nat Gordon: The location's not there. There's really not much reason to believe that he's going to improve. So, yeah, I just, , he's gotten one more start than Smoltz. It looks like he's about to get two more than Smoltz, but , we'll see how long it lasts. I mean, you could always do the fake I ls st, you know, the phantom il, you just put 'em on the shelf for a little bit, see what you've got, and then, you know, in three weeks if, if you like what the rotation's given you, at that point you can dfa the guy, but maybe you just go right in and, and, and dfa him.

[00:28:33] Nat Gordon: Anyway, you don't even have to fake I l him. It's just I feel like they, they gave him 10 million and it's been less than two months. Yeah. So they're, they're afraid and like he's, it's not, he's not like, he's just any guy. I mean, this is a two-time Cy Young Award winner, really well-respected guy, and a, and a good guy.

[00:28:48] Nat Gordon: He's a really good dude and he wants to be good, but it's just, , he's been through the ringer in terms of injuries, , he's 37. He's just, he's at the , end of his road. I mean, we'll see how much time he is [00:29:00] got left, but yeah, I, I see a lot of parallels with the exper, with the Corey Kluber experience to the John Schultz experience.

[00:29:08] Mark Corbett: Well, like, like any player, I hope they can find their way and the control, you know, which he wouldn't have been a s Young Award winner. He did if he didn't achieve a lot in the past. 

[00:29:18] Nat Gordon: Oh, big time. Yeah. I mean, he, he was, we, we watched him for years. He was, It's flat out untouchable. You, you face Corey Kluber, you're taking the loss that day.

[00:29:26] Nat Gordon: And it's tough because like, you don't want, like, this isn't me and Red Sox fans like rooting for a guy to lose his job. Like that's, it's, they, we just wanna see the team win and, you know, and this, it's a cutthroat business. And if you're not getting the job done, usually in this league you don't have a job.

[00:29:45] Mark Corbett: Well, I am glad to see one pitcher who is aging, who's doing so well, and that's Chris sell. And to me it's, it's a wonder to watch when that man is on his game. And he certainly seems to have been like that this past week. 

[00:29:59] Nat Gordon: [00:30:00] Yeah. I mean, he, he had, you know, three or four starts to open the air where it really didn't look like we were gonna see the Chris Sale of old ever.

[00:30:10] Nat Gordon: And a lot of people were talking about, you know, throwing him in the bullpen. Yep. But for the last month, maybe more at this point, he has looked like the Chris Sale of olden. They're, they're treating him like, like he's the ace. I mean, they threw him out for the seventh inning, beginning the inning at 98 pitches and he went 1, 2, 3.

[00:30:32] Nat Gordon: He got the first out on, on six pitches and they let him stay in for the righties, cuz the, yeah, the first guy in the inning was a lefty. He got him out. Had 104 pitches and they, they just let him keep going against the righties and he, he got 'em both out and finishes the day with 111 pitches goes seven innings, two runs, eight strikeouts.

[00:30:49] Nat Gordon: The two runs were just solo homers. I mean, that's just, I feel like that's gonna be the damage on Sales, the long ball. But I mean, the strikeouts have been there. Yeah, he's been [00:31:00] getting like eight to 10 strikeouts seemingly every time he goes out there, he's looked. He's looked like the Chris Sale of old, like we'll see how long it can hold up because you know, who knows?

[00:31:10] Nat Gordon: He, he's, he's 34 and he's had injury history, so we'll see if his body can hold up and if his body does hold up, we'll see if his arm can hold up through a full season. Cuz even, even at Chris Sale's Peak, he would fade down the stretch and he has not had his best innings in September and October. So we'll see.

[00:31:27] Nat Gordon: But I mean, to be honest with you, I think a lot of Red Sox fans would've told you, we'll take it just to even have him on the mound. Because we just haven't had it. Last three seasons, 20, he got Tommy John and missed 20, 20 and half of 2021. Actually probably more than half of 2021. And then in 2022, Breaks the rib before the season comes back, takes the line, drive off the hand at Yankee Stadium and then falls off his bike and, and hurts his other hand.

[00:31:57] Nat Gordon: Like it, it's unbelievable. It's like he's on the mount. It's [00:32:00] incredible that he's not only on the mountain but he's succeeding too. And it, and you can tell like just how happy it makes him. He definitely has a greater appreciation for just being out there. You know, he comes outta the start the other day and he's all smiles and, you know, Chris Sale in the past, like.

[00:32:16] Nat Gordon: It's just business, you know, he's just doing his job. But now, now he has an appreciation for where he is at, and it's cool to see. 

[00:32:24] Mark Corbett: I enjoy watching him as well. We, the vitality this year, what he's able to achieve. But I was actually surprised when I saw that Cora let him pitch 111 pitches. I mean, he was on fire, don't get me wrong.

[00:32:37] Mark Corbett: But I would wanna protect that arm. I would, I would've probably pulled him and been, uh, booed by Boston Red Sox everywhere if I was the manager. But geez, I wonder, but I wanna protect that 

[00:32:49] Nat Gordon: golden arm. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. It's been over a hundred pitches, two straight starts. I think he had like maybe 1 0 8 the start before, and I know they've gotten an extra off day.[00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] Nat Gordon: So he's gonna get an extra day of rest in between these starts, and they'll temporarily go with a six-man rotation before they figure out who they're, uh, banishing to the bullpen or potentially, you know, Phantom Myel or D F a, if it's Corey Kluber. Um, so he'll get his rest. I, I think that's the thinking behind it, but it's still pretty crazy to see.

[00:33:19] Nat Gordon: Because I, I, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit nervous seeing him out there throwing over a hundred pitches after, after what we've seen injury-wise from him in the past. 

[00:33:31] Mark Corbett: Well, I hope cont, like I said, I hope he continues to be able to perform. I just hope that they manage that arm. Yeah, because I'm, it's one of my bugaboos as far as taking care of the health of players and I'm just feel like I'm seeing way too many Tommy John searches way too much, you know, downtime for pitchers on the il.

[00:33:50] Mark Corbett: And I think, again, I think you and I both have said this, that it's the demand from speed, you know? And I. I still [00:34:00] question whether or not the pitch clock has made the whole operation part of the issue that for their health, that they don't have the time for a pause, you know, that I, I don't know, may I, let's, I'll put that to the side.

[00:34:11] Mark Corbett: If, I'll just ask you real quickly, do you feel like the pitch clock has had any impact on the pitcher's 

[00:34:15] Nat Gordon: health? I, I actually do I agree with you on that? I, I think it's no surprise. I mean, pitcher injuries seem to increase every year, but I, I feel like it's no surprise this year. These guys, I mean, they throw upper nineties and there's a reason they would take a long time to, you know, get themselves back.

[00:34:33] Nat Gordon: You gotta, you gotta regenerate that energy. Yep. And you see these guys, you know, if they're in a jam and they have to throw 30 pitches in an inning and they're trying to hit 96, 97, 98 on the gun every time, 30 times in an inning, separated by. What depend, depend, some of these guys go even quicker than the pitch clock.

[00:34:51] Nat Gordon: So they're, they're separating these, these throws by like 10, 15 seconds. And it, I mean, it, it doesn't take, it doesn't take a [00:35:00] savant to, to know that doing that with your arm that quickly and that powerfully is gonna do some damage. Like, I'm, I'm not, I'm really not surprised at all. I, I really don't know what you do about it, but it, yeah, it's tough to see cuz it, it doesn't feel like it's gonna stop.

[00:35:17] Mark Corbett: Well, I hope all your guys stay healthy this year. I can tell you, Nat, , it's been exciting and I know they're doing great right now as far as, , climbing out of, yeah, you put 'em in any other division, they would absolutely rise above everything. , I know that the balance schedule gives everybody a chance to see 'em too this year.

[00:35:35] Mark Corbett: But I think the Red Sox, and as we were just talking about some of the players and what they're able to achieve, it's. You guys are there. Just a few more wins. Yankees said were there at the basement a couple weeks ago then. Then the Rays gave him a couple of games and a few others, and so it's very fickle and it's still early this year, so we'll see what happens.

[00:35:57] Mark Corbett: Yeah, 

[00:35:57] Nat Gordon: I mean there are this division, every team in this [00:36:00] division is, is damn good. And yeah, the balance schedule. It just gives them an opportunity to be even better. Cause we're we're facing each other less. 

[00:36:10] Mark Corbett: Yep. Yeah. Wake up world here, they are the AL East guest. 

[00:36:13] Nat Gordon: Yeah. I mean, it's like I'm, I'm. counting, my blessings.

[00:36:16] Nat Gordon: We've already faced Baltimore twice, so we only have to face them twice more the rest of the season. Like that's crazy. Yeah. We, it felt like we used to see these guys and you guys and the Jays and the Yankees, like every, every other day we're playing Yep. An AL East team. But this year it's not like that.

[00:36:31] Nat Gordon: It, it, it really, I really do think that every team in this division is gonna finish above 500. 

[00:36:36] Mark Corbett: Well I'm looking forward to the all of it. Well, one last word I wanna make sure too, so you cover everything with what you're doing online and once again, share with us your handle on Twitter. 

[00:36:47] Nat Gordon: Yes, you can follow me.

[00:36:48] Nat Gordon: Uh, I'm Boston Sports Godo on Twitter and the ad is b o s Sports Gordo. 

[00:36:52] Mark Corbett: Okay. Yeah. Now, cuz right now I noticed you cover everything including the Celtics and this has gotta be a hard week [00:37:00] for you and a lot of Celtics fans. 

[00:37:02] Nat Gordon: Yeah, I mean, they're just getting. Throttled out there by the heat there down oh three right now as we're, as we're talking about this and I don't, I don't think there's really any hope to get this thing back to Boston for a game five.

[00:37:14] Nat Gordon: I hope I'm wrong, but just based off of, I mean the heat just, deep in their heads. It's, it's tough to watch cuz I mean usually, you know, you see guys. Taut Al Horford, and that's the end of them. And, and the Celtics come back and kill you for that. But , this time around, it was the other way around. Grant Williams, tuns, Jimmy Butler. And, and that was that for the Celtics.

[00:37:40] Nat Gordon: They, came, they came out firing the rest of the game too, and then killed him in game three. And Jimmy Butler's taunting Al Horford and there's nothing the Celtics can do about it. Well, I'll tell you 

[00:37:51] Mark Corbett: what man. I know you're like, I said, do you have it all going on? Whether it's hockey, baseball, football, basketball, and of course baseball.

[00:37:59] Mark Corbett: Did I say it [00:38:00] twice? Um, but I, again, I wanna thank you again for joining us here today. Nat. Any other final thoughts that you wanna share with our audience? 

[00:38:08] Nat Gordon: No, just excited to see, you know, the socks on the west coast and, you know, at some point again, we'll, we'll face you guys and hopefully that will we'll fare better than we did last time because.

[00:38:19] Nat Gordon: Was that four games, was that a four game sweep? I think it was four Game Sweep. It was against the Rays. That was, that was a low point for the socks, cuz that was right after they lost Duval. That was right when, , it felt like the season was kind of slipping away in, in April. But yeah, I'm excited to see that matchup again.

[00:38:33] Nat Gordon: , the Rays are an insanely tough team to face, especially , in the Trop but I'm excited for that in the future. It'll be fun. 

[00:38:40] Mark Corbett: Hey, I'll be headed up here to Boston in a few weeks and thanks for the, the heads up on a few things I can do while I'm up there to see. That game where the Rays and the, or one of 'em anyway, where the Rays or playing with the Red Sox.

[00:38:50] Mark Corbett: So it should be a lot of fun. Anyway, thanks again buddy for being here today on Baseball Biz On Deck, so thanks again my friend for being here and look forward to talking with you again real soon.

[00:38:59] Mark Corbett: Sure 

[00:38:59] Nat Gordon: thing. Thanks for [00:39:00] having me. 

For the most up to date news on the Red Sox follow Nat Gordon of Boston Sports Gordo, @BOSSportsGordo & Beyond the Monster with Chris Enrique @ChrisHenrique and - Let’s get Jarren Duran to the All-Star game with Rob Bradford @Bradfo

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