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Just a reminder you can find Mat at M-A-T-G-E-R-M-A-I-N dot bsky social. That’s @matgermain.bsky.social or Mark at @baseballbizondeck.bsky.social
Special thank s to XTaKeRuX for the music “Rocking Forward
RaysUp 264 DeScript Tampa Bay Rays with Mat Germain
[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: Welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. I am Mark Corbett. and with me, of course, is Mr. Mat Germain. Mat is the guy who's got all the wit and wisdom of the game. He lets me come out and play every now and then. And that's what we're doing here today. So, Hey, how's it going, man?
[00:00:20] Mat Germain: I'm doing well. I got to chat a little bit with J.
[00:00:22] Mat Germain: J. Cooper about the Rays prospects. So I got all the stuff out of the way when it comes to what we have to look forward to. And, uh, I'm all primed up for, uh, for the long lists that'll end up coming out, , through the off season.
[00:00:37] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I am really curious to see what everything looks like. I mean, as far as the Rays, it looks like we're really going to have a strong List of batters.
[00:00:46] Mark Corbett: It should be pitchers coming back a good rotation. The guys, a lot of them had been injured in the past and it'd be interesting to see what we see coming up from the, the minor leagues as well. Uh, man, were you surprised to hear what our former Ray there? Mr. Blake Snell did today.
[00:01:05] Mat Germain: I'm not surprised at all.
[00:01:06] Mat Germain: I think I had the Dodgers as one of the top five destinations, just based on the money he was going to be looking for. Um, I, I know he messed up last year in terms of waiting for top dollar. And he, he knew that. So, you know, the, the fact that the Dodgers came out and what gets me is that there are still the ones that are offsetting the most salaries still, like through all these recent contracts and MLB is allowing it to happen.
[00:01:33] Mat Germain: And I'm telling you right now, at some point, the Milwaukee Brewers are going to sign Juan Soto and defer about, you know, 500, 000 to 700, 000 million that they're going to, that they're going to pay him. And MLB is going to go, Whoa, wait a minute. It's going to happen. Uh, that's what surprised me more is that, you know, I, I get.
[00:01:54] Mat Germain: You know, financial the future value of money in the present value of money. All those concepts are very well known to me. So I understand why they're doing what they're doing. But for the Dodgers, I think somebody posted today that , they have over a billion dollars deferred or very close to it.
[00:02:12] Mat Germain: Uh, which, you know, you can mortgage as much of your future as you want, uh, in theory, um, but at what point does the league really need to revamp, the whole luxury tax system and the whole punitive system that's supposed to be keeping things in check here so that we don't have these super teams being built, uh, like they have in the NBA.
[00:02:35] Mat Germain: And I, no league wants to have that. It just, I posted it today. Well, we have now an MLB is about 10 teams that can afford to compete and 20 teams who really don't matter anymore.
[00:02:48] Mark Corbett: Ooh. Ooh. Um, I'd like to say you're wrong, but you're, you're not. And it has become kind of an elitist organization as far as strong, very strong teams with a lot of money.
[00:03:02] Mark Corbett: And it's, it's kind of funny because it also reflect back on the Rays themselves about how. Billionaires are trying to find ways to get more money out of the fan base, but thinking about, uh, basically displacing their debt for the future. And that's what the Dodgers are doing. And some of the other large teams are displacing their debt for the future.
[00:03:26] Mark Corbett: And they are going to have. Contracts like Bobby Bonilla's did long ago when it was considered such a fluke and I guess what showy Ohtani's kids or grandkids are probably getting paid something here in 3040 years. Who knows?
[00:03:41] Mat Germain: Yeah, he's not going to be, uh, the, the, the Ohtani timeline, uh, of, of wealth is, is secured.
[00:03:49] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Oh man. Deferred payment, but that's, I'm glad to see that for, for Blake. So he's about 185 billion for a five year contract. Nice.
[00:04:00] Mat Germain: So how many of those years do you think he's healthy?
[00:04:03] Mark Corbett: Oh my, you and I both know how that plays out. You'd be lucky to see if he gets, uh, get three really good ones out of him.
[00:04:10] Mark Corbett: And I mean, I'm looking around now and you're seeing Verlander, you see Kershaw, and you see all these guys in fantastic pitchers of how they're suffering. And I'll look at that. Uh, as far as league making up for all this short changing, they do these pitchers in the early parts of their career because they get it, they get these guys for a song.
[00:04:30] Mark Corbett: I mean, the Rays had him, you know, all that before free agency, they got it for nothing.
[00:04:35] Mat Germain: Yep. And they had both him in Glasnow in the rotation during the world series against the Dodgers in 2020. And now the Dodgers snagged both up. So the question is when do they build the rest of the X rays rotation?
[00:04:50] Mark Corbett: Oh, I wonder if Willy will pop up out there. Yeah. Who else would be up there? Shane McClann and who I hope not, but yeah, that's, it's, it's, it's scary to watch. It's, uh, it's money building, you know, that's what they're doing. They're building a team, man. They're building strong, strong team. And
[00:05:12] Mat Germain: The only, uh, the only x rays to sign.
[00:05:14] Mat Germain: They also had, uh, uh, Genesis Cabrera, uh, signed a minor league deal with the Mets.
[00:05:21] Mark Corbett: I
[00:05:22] Mat Germain: know he, uh, he ruffled a lot of feathers, I guess, last year in the way he was pitching and hitting guys, , when things were emotional, um, So he's made a name for himself and I think that's why now he's, , he's kind of getting the minor league deal.
[00:05:38] Mat Germain: Although the performance has a lot to do with it as well, but it's, it's interesting that he went to the Mets who kind of needed a little bit of that grit, especially in the, AL East, uh, because the, the Phillies tend to play with an edge and they have some nasty relievers and so do the Braves.
[00:05:53] Mat Germain: And so it's good to see that and kind of go for an edgier kind of guy, , to give them a little bit more, , More life in the back of the pen, other than, um, than only having Diaz.
[00:06:06] Mark Corbett: Now, a lot of Rays probably remember him too. I guess it was from last year and Jonathan Aranda making it over to third. And had ball.
[00:06:15] Mark Corbett: It got cut loose and Cabrera is pitching. He runs over there to cover third and there was really no need for him to do anything. I think it was a dead play at that point. But he walked over to Cabrera. I mean, Cabrera walked over to Aranda, I think it was, and I dunno, he did like a chess pump or some little push thing.
[00:06:33] Mark Corbett: And it is like, dude, really? But maybe, is that the grit you're talking about or, yeah,
[00:06:39] Mat Germain: it was the Caballero, I think it was Jose Caballero that, oh. Yeah. And it was for no reason whatsoever. There was no need for it. And I don't know, you never know what's being said before and after. So you don't, you can't really fully judge unless you know exactly what went on before the game and what the relationship is like and if they've met before somewhere, so, uh, but yeah, in the heat of the moment, he definitely took things too far.
[00:07:04] Mat Germain: Yeah.
[00:07:05] Mark Corbett: Well, I hope Cabrera has a great time with the Mets. I'm glad to see him being able to do something with that organization. Well, Mat, are you looking at coming, uh, coming down Florida this year?
[00:07:16] Mat Germain: I think I'm going to, uh, head to Vegas to be honest. Yeah. Cause I can go to the Arizona portion.
[00:07:24] Mark Corbett: Yeah.
[00:07:24] Mat Germain: Um, and I'm going to, uh, see the grand Canyon.
[00:07:27] Mat Germain: It's on my bucket list and, uh, and also see some shows Cirque du Soleil, those kinds of things. Um, You know, just have a little bit more of a chill time. I think, it's one of those few moments in life that I'll be able to manage to go out there without, uh, Without having to, uh, change much else in terms of our travels.
[00:07:48] Mat Germain: So I'm going to take advantage of it and see some baseball in Arizona, which I've never done.
[00:07:54] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I can't wait to hear your travels there, man. That'd be something. And what can't wait to see the Las Vegas A's too.
[00:08:04] Mat Germain: Yeah. Oh man. So what are your thoughts on now? We have two franchises that are going to be playing in minor league, uh, you They both have a way forward to, to have a home, you know, a lot of hurdles to be cleared in Vegas.
[00:08:23] Mat Germain: The question is for the Rays, and I think I brought this up to you and when we were chatting and messaging, , there's a rule somewhere and I haven't been able to find it. I've been digging and maybe somebody can clarify it for us, but there's a rule on the proximity of an MLB stadium to affiliate. So my theory is.
[00:08:43] Mat Germain: That if the Rays do end up, , by Sunday, I think they have to make a call to about the St. Petersburg Stadium issue. Let's say that it falls through and they decide, okay, we're going to either set up shop at Steinbrenner Field and we're going to build a stadium there, or they get a deal with Tampa side somewhere.
[00:09:03] Mat Germain: Either way, the Yankees affiliate cannot exist within the proximity of where the Ray Stadium would be if it's on the Tampa side, they would be forced to move in that case. So my question is. Why is there even a question about where they would build if they're going to be in Tampa? Obviously it's going to be the Steinbrenner field site.
[00:09:23] Mat Germain: That's the only one that makes sense because if they're going to have to move anyway, why would you set it up somewhere else? You've got the field, it's baseball ready. You don't have to negotiate with anyone. The only thing you have to negotiate is how the stadium gets paid and you go through the same kind of process that the Yankees went through to build theirs.
[00:09:41] Mark Corbett: I think. What you said really kind of goes to the point of it all. I mean, why wouldn't they just bring it over here? Why wouldn't they? Sound Brenner, uh, stadium or field is such that it would be able to handle most nights of what you'd have over the Trop as far as the crowd, but I think it's, come on.
[00:10:00] Mark Corbett: I know nobody wants to say it, but it's true with about 11, 000. And. Uh, MLB will make them, I'm sure it may have some changes to, to that field over there, maybe getting it up to 15, 000, maybe, uh, like they did in Buffalo , with the, , Blue Jays there, they had them update that whole Sahlens field. So I am curious to see how that plays out, but I don't see a reason why they wouldn't make that their permanent new home.
[00:10:27] Mark Corbett: But I mean, at least let's think about this. We're looking at, at the amount of, uh, the heat and the rain that you get down here. I mean, there's a reason that the Marlins moved from John Robbie Stadium into, and having the Marlins Park built, you know, there's, you can't have players out there in that kind of heat.
[00:10:51] Mark Corbett: And you cannot have that many games that are going to be rained out as they probably will be with the early part of the season.
[00:11:00] Mat Germain: Right. So I think the key there and MLB recognized that and they made a bunch of changes to the schedule to kind of compensate for that. But, at that point, then you're getting to, the travel demands on the team and their families and everything else.
[00:11:16] Mat Germain: And then the. The kind of advantage that it gives the Rays, uh, for the first part of the season, uh, in terms of playing at home almost that entire time, like they, they basically don't have to move around much. So other teams are going to see that as an advantage that they can kind of feed on. , And they get to set the roster accordingly.
[00:11:36] Mat Germain: And that's a huge thing. If you're playing on grass and you can set up your roster to be a certain thing, especially in a home run friendly stadium like it's going to be, um, you're able to set your roster now to know exactly, okay, for these months, I need this kind of roster because we're going to be playing there.
[00:11:54] Mat Germain: And then for the next stretch, I need a different kind of roster because we're going to be moving around all over the place. So the rays are going to be able to play some different strategies. When it comes to roster makeup, , that other teams are probably going to be aggravated by. Now, everything is always going to be related to health, there'll be cancellations, there'll be double headers, there'll be a lot of things.
[00:12:16] Mat Germain: But I think the key element here is that eventually, if the Rays do set up shops on Steinbrenner Field, there's going to be some sort of rectification of, What's overhead, right? I don't know what the ultimate plans would look like. I'm hoping it would be something similar to what came out in
[00:12:35] Mat Germain: Ybor
[00:12:37] Mat Germain: and, you know, a translucent roof, make it interesting, uh, make it attractive and make it so that there's light that can come through enough to the point where you may be able to have grass in there.
[00:12:47] Mat Germain: Anyhow,
[00:12:49] Mark Corbett: that would be something, you know, I'd be curious to see if they actually try to do it over there with the strand Steinbrenner field, or try to build a separate stadium. You know, like an Ybor and they originally had planned and just make Steinbrenner where they're going to be for the next couple of years.
[00:13:04] Mark Corbett: But, uh, no, you were talking about MLB trying to make amends for the demand of the, with the weather. And I know I've read, see Razor play 47 of their first 59 at home, then 69 of their last. 103 on the road, man. 69 of your last 103 games on the road. That's intense.
[00:13:25] Mat Germain: Yes, that's a lot,
[00:13:28] Mark Corbett: you know, you try to measure a team through his season.
[00:13:31] Mark Corbett: You know, you got everybody healthy at the, at the beginning of the year. And by the time October comes, you know, you, you look at the Dodgers, they had to have a bullpen in the world series. You know, this is not going to be the same team. So if you take the great team that you hope you got everybody healthy and in place, you know, opening day and then what is going to be at the end of the season.
[00:13:53] Mark Corbett: But you also put it in a factor of, Oh, and by the way, the last half of the season, you're gonna be mostly on the road. It's, it's a lot to ask.
[00:14:05] Mat Germain: And I think the rays are cognizant of that. Now, I think we can honestly say it's going to be two years at least that they're there, more than likely three. , so this isn't just a one time deal.
[00:14:18] Mat Germain: I will say that You know, after 2027, the roof at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal will be completed. So at that point, they could look at different alternatives. Now, I don't know if it would be how, how significant, um, how can I phrase this better? So the Blue Jays did a 750 million renovation to their stadium.
[00:14:42] Mat Germain: And that's why they ended up playing in Buffalo for a portion of the year because the, when they started the renovations, it took longer than expected and they had to spend, what was it, two or three months in that stadium. So in theory, if the roof is in a point where they can start renovations there and they end up, you know, getting an expansion team, let's say, I don't even know when they would announce it.
[00:15:06] Mat Germain: Uh, but let's say that they're looking to prepare The stadium for that, , can they do a portion of that so that It proves the concept that they're ready for expansion
[00:15:17] Mat Germain: By hosting the Rays for that period of time, and then, applying for an expansion team after that, while the razor still negotiating or building a stadium in Tampa, whichever it is, but I have a feeling that if they do end up building a stadium in Tampa, the commissioner is still going to want them to stay in the Tampa region so that the fan base doesn't lose track or love of the team, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:15:42] Mark Corbett: Well, Manfre has tried to build a little love in the midst of all this turmoil between the Rays, you know, the city of St. Pete and the commissioners from Pinellas County. And I think he's tried to tamp down the volume a little bit, but I don't know what he's actually done in the back rooms.
[00:16:00] Mark Corbett: I'd love to hear what he's had to say to Brian Auld, Mat Silverman, and Stu. About working effectively as a partner with the city. And it's just, it's gotten crazy. I've got to give credit personally, when I look at this whole insanity thing, and I look at the Pinellas County commissioners, I see Kathleen Peters and who's the other one, Brian Scott, uh, they're two of the leads of those commissioners, and I think they've had pretty cool heads about trying to make work They delayed votes on bonds because They knew one, they don't feel like they have the commitment from the Rays and they want to get that in writing.
[00:16:44] Mark Corbett: And two was a couple of the new people that came on the commission back in November, it could possibly, you know, destabilize a yes vote. And I think that Auld and some of the other ones were kind of saying, Oh, you're, you're saying no to us and we're going to leave. But that wasn't the case. I thought both Kathleen Peters and, uh, Brian Scott had a good vision saying, Hey, if we take a vote today, we know it'll be no.
[00:17:08] Mark Corbett: The part comes down to, you know, I was having lunch with a friend of mine, Tony, today. He said, Mark, I'm just tired of reading about it. So
[00:17:16] Mat Germain: That I understand. I'm up here in Canada and I can't even stand the subject anymore. I think I've, I've, I wrote about this with DRay's Bay a bunch of times. I covered, , the whole Montreal uptick.
[00:17:29] Mat Germain: Uh, the, the banter between Stu and everybody, how many mayors in St. Petersburg has he had arguments with about this and I think at some point in time, you're going to have to step up. And then that's the part that gets me and it drives me nuts. And my dad always said this, and I, and it's something that's always in the back of my mind that major league baseball is a business they're not, those owners are not doing it for the love of the game.
[00:17:57] Mat Germain: They're not doing it for the fans. They're not doing it for, , nostalgia. No, , even Stephen Cohen, he knows it's a business. There are limits to a business. There's a, there's money involved. The money is ultimately more important than anything else, to them. So you have to recognize that. And the fact that of the matter is that they're trying to position themselves to get that one big payout.
[00:18:21] Mat Germain: Cause when you build a stadium, it's a once in a 20, 25, 30, 40 year, instance, and it's , your ultimate chance to increase the value of your franchise by the most significant margin. You don't have to look any further than Jeffrey Loria to realize
[00:18:37] Mat Germain: that.
[00:18:38] Mat Germain: He, he got to put, , help Major League Baseball sink the Expos, got a interest free loan to buy the Marlins, bought the Marlins, barely paid anything out of his own money, and ended up selling them for a billion dollars.
[00:18:52] Mat Germain: So, you know, the, the money that we're talking about is ludicrous and it is, uh, insane that taxpayers are on the hook for the majority of that. So you can, in theory go, okay, well, Florida is handing Jeffrey Lori. I can't remember the exact numbers, but somewhere between 300 and 600 million, uh, just for the sake of having.
[00:19:15] Mat Germain: I built him a stadium, you know, that's ultimately what ended up happening. And then just like everybody's afraid of, he, you know, with Stu Sternberg, he sold the team and he. Now he's out of it and he's selling art and looking at art somewhere in the world. And I don't really care where, um, but you know, that's, those are owners.
[00:19:37] Mat Germain: You look up Jerry, Jerry Reinstorf and what with the white socks and what he's pulling, it's insane that the majority of teams, if we saw their books and how the accounting actually looks after taxes, we would be in an uproar with all this nonsense about us paying stadiums for them, they are making out like Mark, it is insane.
[00:20:00] Mat Germain: So I understand all those people that get up in those meetings, , when they have open mic and they go up and they talk and they, they preach the truth, which is that there are people who deserve that money more than some owner of a game,
[00:20:15] Mark Corbett: amen, amen. I know it's hard sometimes being a fan of a team like this.
[00:20:21] Mark Corbett: When you, you look around and you see the need. Elsewhere for where those dollars need to be spent. And I almost a kind of a guilt complex. I hate to say it, but when I was thinking, Oh my gosh, how many of these jerseys do I own, how, how much of that could I have done something with to, to help some of the homeless and area with the.
[00:20:41] Mark Corbett: what I spent on jerseys in the last year.
[00:20:43] Mat Germain: So here's a, here's a number for you, Mark. And I like, like, I, I wrote a big rant about this today because it just, it drives me nuts. And I did business courses and I know how trusts work. Um, and, and so in Nova Scotia, I use that as an instance. , but I'm just going to use the numbers based on what, the town or the, the city of St.
[00:21:04] Mat Germain: Petersburg could end up paying for a stadium. Okay. We know homelessness and food security are a big issue. So let's say instead of building a stadium for the Rays, the city of St. Petersburg, over time, it doesn't have to be done in year one, but over time, put that 600 million into a trust instead of, , helping them build a stadium, and they ended up at that 600 million number ultimately, in however many years they want to get.
[00:21:33] Mat Germain: Well, that would mean that from that point onwards, assuming an interest rate of about 7%, they would in perpetuity. Get 42 million a year to put towards food security and homelessness forever. They wouldn't have to put another cent in there. You have solved homelessness and food security in probably a bigger region than Tampa.
[00:21:54] Mat Germain: You're talking probably all the way to Orlando at that point. With that 600 million. But instead what you're going to do is hand it over to an owner who 25 years later is going to look out for another handout for another stadium.
[00:22:09] Mat Germain: And then that's where the money's going to go. And yeah, you'll get some people, some jobs.
[00:22:13] Mat Germain: That's great. Uh, and you'll entertain some people, which is awesome. I understand the value of having a cohesive team to cheer for and how that can build the community. But I'm saying that the ultimate weight of it should be at least 80%. Ownership and 20 percent city, maybe 75, 25, you can sell me on, but I want that money to go into trusts instead to solve the real issues of the world, including hunger, including homelessness, including recovery from hurricanes and natural disasters, tornadoes, whatever it might be.
[00:22:51] Mat Germain: Uh, trusts are way more powerful than to hand money to a sports organization.
[00:22:58] Mark Corbett: Well, I agree. I mean, if you think about it, If we're just subsidizing them and, and I think, think 80 percent is a reasonable amount because do they have enough skin in the game, you know, because if they don't have to worry about it, if the only thing they're looking at is the land that they would get over in Pinellas, and it's just so easily to walk away from the whole stadium idea, because basically we've just handed over,
[00:23:24] Mark Corbett: it's the land itself has much greater value than what's being charged to the Rays for it. So it's, uh, maybe we should talk about something else because it, it is a bit of a downer and
[00:23:39] Mat Germain: we'll change it. I'll change the subject on you right now.
[00:23:42] Mark Corbett: Okay,
[00:23:43] Mat Germain: something that few people know about or talk about, I guess, is the, , the lottery system in Major League Baseball drafts is has been a little bit interesting because it's penalized some teams that you can really say tanked.
[00:23:58] Mat Germain: And it has, uh, brought up some teams that, you know, probably deserve the good kudos for doing a good job. Like last year, we saw the guardians get the first overall pick. And while some teams that had finished behind them, you know, ended up getting the short end of the stick and got the select a little bit later.
[00:24:17] Mat Germain: So this year, what's hilarious is that the White Sox had one of the worst, records in history. And, and they had that 41 and 121
[00:24:28] Mat Germain: what do you want? The Rays won 40 games in a 60 game season. They only won one more game in the full 162. Think about that for a second. So, so they don't even have the opportunity to be in the top nine picks because of things that have transpired over the years and how many times they got lottery picks in the top 10.
[00:24:51] Mat Germain: So, uh, it's really interesting how the system is playing out. And it's the same thing with the Oakland A's. They, they couldn't be in the top 10. So they're going to select 10 and 11, regardless of what happens with the lottery. So what it does mean as well is that the Rays have a 1. 5 percent chance of Of getting the top pick.
[00:25:09] Mat Germain: Now, why is that interesting? Well, the guardians had almost the exact same amount last year. They had 2 percent and they got the top pick. So I'm just saying, it's interesting. You know, the Rays could jump up, to be, I don't know, let's say top five, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
[00:25:27] Mat Germain: But right now the two teams that have the highest chance at the top pick are Colorado and Miami, uh, both with about 22%, uh, uh, uh, 22 percent chance. Uh, so it'll be interesting to see who gets it. I'm always intrigued because, you know, the top 1, 2, 3 picks generally are really, you know, secure and it can move up to MLB usually pretty quickly.
[00:25:50] Mat Germain: Um, so I'm, I'm curious to see, and it's going to happen. The, the, the draw, the lottery is going to happen during the winter meetings, which are coming up. So that's why I mentioned it now so that people can kind of start peeking around the corner and saying, Oh, we're going to get more blood.
[00:26:07] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I'm looking forward to see that as well. Looking at the draft and looking at some of these teams, looking at the White Sox briefly, my gosh, what a terrible, terrible season. I know Nick Murowski from Good Guys Talk Back podcast we've had him on here before, and I cannot imagine wondering what this season's going to look like for them.
[00:26:26] Mark Corbett: Who, whatever they get from the draft. I know they had changes that, uh, they had Pedro Grafal who they just pull it out of the dugout and to, to manage the team. It didn't. Didn't go well, you know, but the thing of it is I think the biggest challenge and then they have is Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner.
[00:26:42] Mark Corbett: I think he was, he was a real challenge for the Chicago Bulls and why, how long, um, how long they were going to have their continued success. So if you have owners like him, if you have owners like Fisher with the A's, this, it's just, there should be some standards, man. There should be some standards. I mean, Marge Schotz got kicked out of all of it for a while.
[00:27:07] Mark Corbett: There has to be standards for these owners. Yeah. And there, the 30 of 'em are not gonna set 'em for themselves in, in the winter meetings.
[00:27:19] Mat Germain: No, the, the, that's the irony of Major League baseball is the owners don't really keep themselves accountable. They're all almost like, uh, like outlaws on their own. You know, you do have a ranger in there, which is the, supposed to be the commissioner, but sometimes he's worse than all of them. . So it's, it's a little bit, you know, like the wild West when it comes to ownership, you can end up with one that gets it.
[00:27:44] Mat Germain: Right. And then it happens. And I think, uh, you know, Steve Cohen could be put in that category. Uh, I think there's also, you know, the Phillies have a great owner. I think some ownership groups tend to be more stable. So what you have in LA is a good example. What you have in Baltimore that just bought the Orioles, they tend to be more stable because opinions get shared and people will end up having cooler heads and, and a more, uh, well thought out message.
[00:28:12] Mat Germain: And like we were talking about the communications, you know, for the Rays ownership, um, that's an example, right. Where maybe the Rays would have better communications if they had a group of individuals as owners, instead of just one, you know, tycoon at the top that wants to. To cash in on as much as possible without building the relationships without having other people in the room saying, hey, well, maybe we want to frame it this way, or maybe we want this, or maybe we want that right.
[00:28:40] Mat Germain: All the partners that he does have are pretty silent, from what I understand. So, I will say we're talking back and forth. About the White Sox. I still remember this minor league season and I know I'm a, I'm a prospects junk junkie, so it, it marked me, but I was impressed with how the double a team played for, uh, for the White Sox and they ended up winning the championship and yeah, suddenly.
[00:29:02] Mat Germain: So there is hope around the corner for them. They did make a few deals, you know, that give them some guys to start building around. But they are so far. You know, they really this offseason have to maximize the value of Garrett Crochet, Louis Robert and probably trade Andrew Vaughn. Just move on from those three, get whatever value you can out of them while you can so that you can actually, you know, flip the page and also flip some of the attitude on the team, right?
[00:29:34] Mat Germain: It's always refreshing when, when you get new faces and you get a new kind of mix of people in there. And I think, uh, I think the White Sox need a do over in almost all areas of their team right now. So, it'll be interesting to see how aggressive they are during the season. Now, I always say the second thing that I saw Alex Anthopoulos do in, Toronto that impressed me a lot is especially when he first moved into them was he would trade away a lot of.
[00:30:01] Mat Germain: You know, players for a lot of prospects. Yes. And then he would actually, you know, sign guys that he knew he could trade at the deadline so that he could get even more and continue building that snowball. So he was still spending the money he was just doing it short term so that he can move on after that and then get more talent into their organization and the White Sox really need somebody that's going to push that kind of agenda.
[00:30:28] Mat Germain: I'm not sure Chris gets the guy to do it. But, uh, uh, you know, we'll see, I'm going to give him a chance to prove himself this off season. , I, I still think that they, they need a complete overhaul of their evaluations, , because a lot of the deals they're making, they're not really getting the full value out of them.
[00:30:48] Mark Corbett: Well, and the vibe in that clubhouse has to be just weak. I mean, it's somber with, you know, only 40, 41 wins. You could even bring both Mookie Betts and Willy Adames in there as cheerleading. I, I don't, it's going to take a lot more than that to jumpstart this team, the attitude, and I know where the players and from the management on down, I am probably more curious about watching them than just about any other team next year, to be honest with you, seeing what they can do to turn down the ugliness.
[00:31:22] Mark Corbett: Of 2024
[00:31:25] Mat Germain: start fresh, give guys a chance to prove themselves. A lot of times you can find a lot of good talents. Look at the A's last year is a good example,
[00:31:32] Mark Corbett: right?
[00:31:33] Mat Germain: They ended up with one of the guys that everybody was calling them about to trade at the, at the deadline. They wanted Brent Rooker and they, everybody was calling them about it.
[00:31:42] Mat Germain: And they held fast. They said, no, we are going to start building now because they've, You know, they traded how many guys, uh, with the Yankees, with this, with that, and they kept accumulating talent. And at some point you do have to say, no, now we're ready to move ahead. But the, the White Sox are so, I don't want to say they're so far.
[00:32:02] Mat Germain: So to me, baseball always starts behind a plate. Right. And that's the genius in the moves that they did make with the Astros and other teams. They got some catchers that are intriguing. They got Edgar Cuero and they got Corey Lee. Those two guys, in theory could end up leading your pitching staff to kind of overachieve if they actually step up and are as productive as what we're expecting them to be.
[00:32:24] Mat Germain: Having said that, catchers tend to be volatile, right? So a lot of them tend to To take a few years to grow, but in a way, that's a good problem to have, because now you can start building pieces in your rotation and in your pen to work a relationship with those guys and establish something over time, but you're going to have to be aggressive, like, because you don't get pitching talents like that or develop them without having something like what the Rays have.
[00:32:51] Mat Germain: Right. And, and, and, and, You know, I'd like to say, okay, I give him credit for doing Garrett crochet. They developed him. They, they had a hand in Chris sale and getting his career started. Right. So they're not completely oblivious when it comes to the pitching development. So, you know, once you get the pitching and the catching kind of resolved and a few position players that are intriguing in there, and they have a few that are coming up, Carson Montgomery is one that does a shortstop who's supposed to have a lot of, uh, A lot of good, you know, all around kind of player, uh, you have Brian Ramos, you have Miguel Vargas that they got from the Dodgers.
[00:33:27] Mat Germain: You've got a lot of guys that have a lot to prove, but they had the talent sort of like what we used to see with, uh, Miguel Andujar, and he's doing that, you know, a little bit now with the A's. Um, so. It's not all lost, and to be honest, how hard is it to get a first baseman and a left fielder and a right fielder?
[00:33:46] Mat Germain: They've got Benitendi in there right now, but eventually we think, I think we know that he's going to get dealt as well if he has a good stretch of time. Um, so yeah, it's never all lost with baseball. Um, you just need to have a plan and to start filling spots and make them as long term as you can.
[00:34:05] Mark Corbett: Uh, I gotta apologize, Mat. I am just not in the game tonight. Uh, for one reason or another, that's the truth of it. Um, part of it's like, to me, it's just dwelling too much on the shit about the, uh, I know you want to avoid it. And it's like, good gravy, you know, but it's It's
[00:34:25] Mat Germain: so outlandish everywhere.
[00:34:27] Mat Germain: Like I, I do want to go back to it, but I just, the, because there's no hard and fast information that we can use on this whole, Until Sunday, right? When something happens, then we can kind of sit there and go, Oh. Well, they said no. Okay. So now they're never going back to St. Pete, essentially.
[00:34:46] Mark Corbett: Well, again, I'll go back to saying I give a salute to Kathleen Peters for putting together that letter and, you know, saying what I'm requesting that you officially declare your intention regarding this agreement.
[00:34:59] Mark Corbett: you intend to see it come to fruition. I mean, that was part of it. That's like, yes, damn it. You know, and then giving the deadline, I thought that is just huge. And by gum, if the, if the rays don't like it, guess what? All this paperwork, all these contracts, all this. All of the wordage has been there all along, and there wasn't a deadline by when they said they would absolutely sign the bonds.
[00:35:25] Mark Corbett: I understand that the Rays are hungry for it, but I'm so, so happy to see that, excuse me, Kathleen Peters just stood right up and said, guess what guys, we need an answer. Yes or no.
[00:35:39] Mat Germain: And I don't think they're going to get it. I think it'll be quiet. And I think they'll just have to, what they'll do is they'll wait for them to assume because there'll be no answer.
[00:35:50] Mat Germain: And there's no contract in writing saying that they have to give them an answer. So then they'll just go to the legal route if they want. As an option, um, I don't know who's going to say what, when and how, but I know that I, like I told you, I think we were talking when the hurricanes first hit or after they hit.
[00:36:09] Mat Germain: I really think that shook up the ownership and especially looking at the development of St. Petersburg. Yeah. It'll be, I really think they were like, Oh, well that's not going to work. And then they were like panicked and they were, we need a way out. So they're pulling on the parachute right now. And they're kind of, they jumped out of the plane already.
[00:36:29] Mat Germain: Uh, in my opinion, you know, Sometimes things happen for a good reason. And I think when you look at the timing overall, we, we talked about how fortunate it was for St. Petersburg that the hurricanes happened after, well, obviously we were both wrong because there were ways out that we didn't
[00:36:45] Mark Corbett: anticipate. No, no, no.
[00:36:48] Mark Corbett: Didn't anticipate these at all.
[00:36:50] Mat Germain: At all. I didn't see it coming. I really didn't. I thought they were locked in once they signed the deal.
[00:36:57] Mark Corbett: Yeah, let's try to get Hillsborough County commissioner, Ken Hagan on here. I had to get it. I did not give him enough lead time. Maybe we'll have him on next week. He was big proponent of bringing the Rays to Tampa, you know, what?
[00:37:09] Mark Corbett: Four or five years ago, the Ybor and. Love to hear what he has to say. I'm also going to reach out to Daryl Shaw, who's a real estate developer. Who is he, he has a developing a lot of round Ybor city, so he'll be instrumental in seeing whether or not that could happen there, but as much as I don't like seeing all the frustration for the city of St.
[00:37:37] Mark Corbett: Petersburg and the County commissioners and the Raysd fans. I'm like you, this, maybe we'll get the best result out of this anyway. Maybe we'll get a team over here in Tampa and we'll have a team that has a proximity of a lot more audience who can come to a place like that. I think that would certainly increase the, uh, the attendance of these games and we'll, we'll see what it's going to be, but I see that as a real boon.
[00:38:06] Mat Germain: Yeah, when you think about it, from what I gather, the traffic from St. Pete to downtown Tampa at night, or you know, assuming you go to a game and you're from St. Pete, the traffic in that direction is a lot less than it would be the other way.
[00:38:22] Mark Corbett: Right.
[00:38:23] Mat Germain: So it's actually easier for people from St. Pete to support games in Tampa than it is for Tampa to support games in St.
[00:38:29] Mat Germain: Pete, if that makes any sense. So, in a back around way, you've built a solid fan base now for years, for decades, in St. Pete, and now you're going to draw them into Tampa, hopefully with a beautiful stadium that they'll want to go to, you know, as often as they can. So it actually, for the Bay altogether, it might be the best case scenario.
[00:38:52] Mat Germain: Uh, of outcomes overall, because now you're going to have a strong set, , fan base in St. Pete and you're building up the momentum in Tampa. , and it might, , ignite at that point to the point where eventually they become a major market
[00:39:07] Mark Corbett: well, let's hope that happens, my friend. All righty.
[00:39:12] Mark Corbett: What else we got, brother?
[00:39:14] Mat Germain: Baseball America released their top 10 Raysd prospects. And there's, I just want to note that there's, uh, three things that they're sort of always, I know everybody, every outlet has their own preferences, right? And they have their own things that they look at. But one of the things that I'm always intrigued about when, when these things come out is what grades are they giving their, you know, to their tools, because.
[00:39:37] Mat Germain: Year to year, they tend to change, they get more eyes on them or experience with them. So for example, Carson Williams, uh, you know, everybody knows he's their top prospect, but I don't think everybody knows why he's their top prospect. So you look at the, the, the skill value and he's got a 70 grade fielding, uh, mark 70 grade arm.
[00:40:00] Mat Germain: So he's getting the ball in there. They get at a ferocious, you know, 70, they don't end out. It's something that they give out pretty rarely. I don't even know if Taylor Walls ever got a 70 arm grade as a shortstop. So it tells you the fielding value of Carson Williams. So essentially what they're saying is that his ceiling is higher than Taylor Walls as a shortstop, and he has 60 grade power.
[00:40:28] Mat Germain: And a 50 grade run. So you imagine if Taylor Walls merged with Junior Caminero, you're getting closer to what Carson Williams could be. Uh, now obviously junior has a, has more power, but, but you're getting closer to that point where he's a special, special prospect and that's why he's ranked in a top four in MLB.
[00:40:52] Mat Germain: They were also super high on Brayden Taylor, like just as a complete player, Brayden Taylor, to me, he's one of those guys that can move all around the infield. He could end up as a third baseman, second baseman, shortstop, he can play all of them at a very high level. So basically, he's like going to be a very solid utility, which means that he can move up.
[00:41:12] Mat Germain: really fast if they believe in his hit tool. So all of his grades are 50s. Like he's just across the board what they would picture as a dirtbag kind of baseball player. So they're very high on him. They're very high on Tre' Morgan in terms of his fielding especially and his hit tool. His hit tool has been bragging about You know, like endlessly, but his fielding, they're just like, I would never move him off first base.
[00:41:36] Mat Germain: He has to be at first base and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on a second. I don't see Xavier Isaac playing the outfield at all. I just don't, I don't think that it's a fit for him because he's a bigger guy. Like, I'm not talking, he's lost a lot of weight from originally when he got drafted and he's a lot fitter now.
[00:41:55] Mat Germain: I just don't think he has the speed that the Rays would be asking for, , from their outfielders. I still think because, Tre' Morgan has a much better run, than Xavier Isaac that I've seen anyway, I could be wrong. Maybe the, the times, you know, once we get them under baseball savant, uh, end up being closer than I think.
[00:42:16] Mat Germain: But either way, you're gonna have Xavier Isaac at first base or Tre' Morgan, and you're gonna have the other one in the outfield more than likely, unless one of them ends up DH. So I'm just gonna, they can go in terms of grades, like they gave an 80 fielding grade to Tre' Morgan, which basically means, If he doesn't win a gold glove at some point, something has gone terribly wrong, right?
[00:42:43] Mat Germain: Yeah. 80 grade Baseball, America barely ever gives out and they gave him an 80 grade as a fielder. I think that is just. Phenomenal to know. Uh, so I'm definitely going to be taking a closer look now. I didn't get to see him as much at first base because he was sharing time and he played some outfield in the AFL, yada, yada, yada.
[00:43:03] Mat Germain: So I'll be curious to see that. And the last thing I'll mention from their list, uh, just because I don't want to give it all away, you should get a, a membership to their site and get to know more about what it, what it is they do and why they have value. Um, But I, I was curious about their Gary Gale Hill. He was the, one of the best pitchers that they had in the system for the Rays. And they, when they, you, one of the things that they do is they set up what they think the roster will be years from now. It's not meant to be accurate. It's just meant to provide a glimpse of, okay, you know, if all things shake out, this guy could end up being the number one pitcher.
[00:43:37] Mat Germain: This guy could end up being the number two starting pitcher, et cetera, et cetera. They didn't even have him in the rotation. They had him in closing games, which is really intriguing, because if you look at his, his frame, he definitely doesn't seem like he would be the type to be a workhorse. Having said that, Blake Snell wasn't the biggest guy when he was coming up out of high
[00:43:58] Mat Germain: school
[00:43:58] Mat Germain: either, right?
[00:43:59] Mat Germain: It took a while for him to get the, the man body. And, uh, And he got there eventually. Same thing with Chris Archer. Uh, so there's a chance that Gary Gale Hill could end up in the same spot and end up being a dominant, , pitcher as a starter as well. I just found it interesting that I started thinking, well, is he going to be a closer or is he going to stay As a shift to close or stay as a starter.
[00:44:22] Mat Germain: And the last thing that I'll actually mention one more, uh, they did say that the shoulder for Braylor Guerrero is going to be fine. So I, this during the season, I think I mentioned it when we were talking, he had a major shoulder injury, which kept them out, uh, even though he was like. Crazy, crazy, crazy good when, when the season started for him, uh, but the shoulder injury slowed him down, but apparently he's going to be fully healthy for next year, which is great because he's one of those, probably one of the most electric talents that they have right now in the system.
[00:44:54] Mat Germain: And he could end up being in the top three ranked next year, I think.
[00:45:00] Mark Corbett: Wow. Now you're attributing the most of this to your research with, it was a baseball prospectus.
[00:45:05] Mat Germain: Baseball America.
[00:45:06] Mark Corbett: Baseball America. I'm sorry. Good. Yeah. I want to make sure that we give a shout out to them because you're like you said, no use reading all the content.
[00:45:15] Mark Corbett: People should go there and do some discovery themselves. Absolutely. Wow. Now, I, I'm really excited about Tre' Morgan, seeing what he's going to look like. And uh, it's, it's, it's exciting watching these teams develop and Mat, you know, your ability to, to track all this, what's going on with the minor leagues long before they ever make it to, you know, the Rays, I started to say to the Trop.
[00:45:40] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I know.
[00:45:42] Mat Germain: That's going to be a habit. That's hard to break. Mark
[00:45:44] Mark Corbett: is my friend. Oh, it's, but, uh, man, you've given us hope. You've given me a reason to say, yes, I'm still a Rays fan. Yes, I am still excited about the future. And because that knowing that that talent is there. Gives me a sense of there's something still to see, even if we don't understand completely what the next couple of seasons are going to look like for the Rays.
[00:46:13] Mark Corbett: We know there's a great depth of talent that can be seen through the matters that are coming up.
[00:46:19] Mat Germain: Mark, there are people that kept me interested in the Expos right up to the last few years, like Brandon Phillips, uh, Bartolo Colon, anybody that touched an Expos jersey after they, they existed no more, uh, kept the flame alive to some point, and it takes a long time for that flame to get extinguished altogether when it comes to what your organization touch.
[00:46:44] Mat Germain: I don't think there's any, any, uh, doubt. That the preference of the league is to have a team in Tampa. So I think, you know, they'll give it as much of a shot as they possibly can. I know they're not going to pay a hundred percent of the stadium, but, but, but like we've said before, when I said I am, I firmly stand on this, okay, Mark, and I've seen corporate people do this before.
[00:47:09] Mat Germain: They can, they get their favorite place. They get their favorite deal making place and they, they start, they just get hooked on it. And I think that once they see what a show that the Rays put on, uh, especially early in the season with all the highlights they're going to have, it's going to happen all at once.
[00:47:27] Mat Germain: Like, so now if you're a corporation, you're able to say, okay, I can set up clients. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. One after the other, all the games are going to be pretty close. So I think you're going to see a love affair build between the Rays and the city of Tampa. Uh, I, it doesn't happen overnight, but I think, you know, if the Rays were to get off to a hot start on top of it, it would just build the hype even more.
[00:47:51] Mat Germain: Uh, so I, I, you have to do a review and I haven't looked at it yet of who they're playing early in the season and see, you know, what are the chances that they go on a hot tear like they did two years ago, just to see, you know, The following that they they're going to be asking to build in Tampa.
[00:48:12] Mark Corbett: Well, I'm excited about it.
[00:48:13] Mark Corbett: I'm hoping to see that future evolve here, buddy, because there's a lot of fans who want to see that over here in Tampa. And I definitely believe it would be a shot in the arm as far as just attendance alone. Uh, people would more and more people would come to it. I mean, there's a reason that we have a hockey team and we have a football team that do very, very well with attendance.
[00:48:37] Mark Corbett: And, while they're great teams that people enjoy those sports. If we'd had the Rays over here, we would have a much better chance of having better attendance, better support for the team, but we'll just have to see who's going to come up with money for all of it and see what happens comes this Sunday.
[00:48:57] Mark Corbett: If, if Brian Auld says anything or remain silent and what, uh, St. Pete, the commissioners from. Pinellas County decide, and I'm hoping for good things, my friend.
[00:49:11] Mat Germain: Yep. I'm hoping for great things for all of you guys. Yeah. I I think you guys have been through a lot . It's almost like, uh, you know, uh, a little bit of, of doomsday right now in a lot of cases.
[00:49:22] Mark Corbett: Yeah.
[00:49:23] Mat Germain: people are, are looking at different options. But I remember when a sister. The city concept first came out, I mean, people were really lit up for that. And then, and I think a lot of people were like, I'm done. That's it. I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel then. And we went through ups and downs and rollercoaster, the rollercoaster ride.
[00:49:42] Mat Germain: That is the Ray's stadium issue is just. You know, I think it's guaranteeing that the next time that the league thinks about adding a franchise, they're going to make sure that the stadium issue is resolved from the get go. It's going to be part of the plans because the A's and the Rays have proven that you need that strength to maintain, you know, a good MLB franchise, uh, long term.
[00:50:12] Mark Corbett: Well, let's say we'll, uh, we'll wish the best for all this. And I gotta get the, I gotta get the turkey in the oven here in a few minutes, dude. So
[00:50:19] Mat Germain: yeah. Happy Thanksgiving, by the way.
[00:50:21] Mark Corbett: Thank you. Thank you. I'm about a month late from you guys.
[00:50:25] Mat Germain: Well, what kind of stuffing do you have?
[00:50:27] Mark Corbett: Oh, stovetop.
[00:50:30] Mat Germain: Yeah, yeah, no.
[00:50:33] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I'll leave my daughter to all that. When I was in Louisville, right here, I'm going to be visiting over my, daughter's , Christina over in Orlando. So actually I have no idea what's going to be served, but, uh, it'll be fun. It's all about getting family together.
[00:50:47] Mat Germain: Yes, man. That's what it's about. Enjoy it. All right, brother. Some extra cranberry for me.
[00:50:52] Mark Corbett: Well, we're going to be talking later on in the future episodes. I've got some things as far as what's happening with the women's pro baseball league with the all Americans. Uh, they, they did, uh, the comments, the bells and the peaches.
[00:51:07] Mark Corbett: What they did in Durham, which was not able to get to and there's also Kim Ng my gosh Kim Ng who was gm for the for the marlins and had been with the yankees organization before that She is going to be heading up The whole new league for a women's softball team. So there's a lot going on there.
[00:51:26] Mark Corbett: Those will be some things to talk about in future baseball biz episodes, but my heart right now is trying to find a home for a baseball team called the Tampa Bay Rays and seeing if Tampa will be. The location for the Tampa Bay rays. Alrighty. Any, any other wisdom that you care to impart upon the audience here today?
[00:51:48] Mat Germain: , no, I honestly just hope and plead that, , Stu Steinberg, has, the, the machinery that needs to be going in order to make the proper decisions, uh, and that they include a lot more, lot more well thought through concepts.
[00:52:03] Mark Corbett: I like that. I like that a lot. Amen. All right, Mat.
[00:52:07] Mark Corbett: Thanks again, buddy, for being here today on BaseballBiz and always love sharing the conversation with you.
[00:52:13] Mat Germain: Absolutely. Always a good time. Mark. Thanks for having me on.
[00:52:15] Mark Corbett: Alrighty. Thank you all again for joining us here today on BaseballBiz on Deck and we look forward to talking with you again. All right.
[00:52:21] Mark Corbett: Real soon. Just remember you can find Mat at, oh my gosh. Mat, where can we find you at ? I can't go with the old where, where, where can they find MatGermain
[00:52:29] Mat Germain: I'm now on Blue Sky only. I'm now no longer on X. Uh, I refuse to, uh, stay on that platform for numerous different reasons. My tag is at M-A-T-G-E-R-M-A-I-N dot bluesky social. @matgermain.bsky.social
[00:52:47] Mat Germain: So they just find me there and I'll be, uh, putting up the same kind of content as what I did on X. So if you enjoyed that, then come and say hi.
[00:52:57] Mark Corbett: Definitely check it out. And Mat, I want to thank you for introducing me to BlueSky too. Um, you know, I'm dragging my feet over there slowly. I haven't completely moved out of the, the Twitterverse, but, um, yeah, there's, it's a great place to go folks.
[00:53:11] Mark Corbett: And you get some great information. And Mat, when they're looking at you on there, you actually have like a starter pack where they can find a whole group of folks that are involved with baseball or even the Rays. How's that set up?
[00:53:21] Mat Germain: Correct. So on Blue Sky, they have what they call starter packs.
[00:53:25] Mat Germain: So you're able to build, you know, a network of people that you or whatever your cause is, your organization, whatever, , You lean on for that topic or, or for that time. So they, you get to build it based on the people that you follow. So in my case, I have everything from, , major league baseball writers to, , people that I follow because they're great sites or they're great commenters or they're great fans of the team, et cetera.
[00:53:52] Mat Germain: And I, I haven't gone back and modified it based on new people that have joined blue sky since. Uh, but it's a healthy one for a Raysd fan to start with. And then they can add to it from there and it just gives you a base following so that your feed generates enough interest and posts and everything else that you're interested to go back and keep reading, keep flicking.
[00:54:13] Mat Germain: So to me, that's the great way to start and then you just build there like you did when you went to X. Our Twitter at the time,
[00:54:19] Mark Corbett: right, man, I tell you what, Mat, I may have to cut this and put it back up toward the front of the show, or maybe I'll do both.
[00:54:27] Mat Germain: That's fine, man. Do what you gotta do.
[00:54:29] Mark Corbett: Oh, I think, cause I think people need to know this.
[00:54:31] Mark Corbett: Um, again, well, thank you, Mat. And for being on the show once again, and folks follow him on blue sky, uh, baseball biz on deck is there as well, but, uh, Mat's always got plenty to share and great insights. So thanks again. And we'll look forward to talking with y'all again, real soon. Special thanks to XtakerUX for the music, rocking forward.
