RaysUp - 2024 Tampa Bay Rays - Mat Germain & Mark look forward

218 BaseballBiz On Deck
Mat Germain RaysUp - Tampa Bay Rays 2024

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: Welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. This is Mark Corbett, your host. And with me today, of course, is Mr. Mat Germain, that purveyor of all knowledge when it comes to the Tampa Bay Rays and that system and baseball and overall, but anyway, we're glad to have Matt here today, post holiday season and start talking about the hot stove.

[00:00:18] Mark Corbett: Hey, Matt, how you doing today, brother?

[00:00:20] Mat Germain: Happy New Year, Mark. Very happy to be here and happy to get talking about baseball as 2024 season looks very interesting. 

[00:00:28] Mark Corbett: Very interesting. Yeah, I think you can put that in neon lights and the top of the building and flash it because I can't even know where to start.

[00:00:36] Mark Corbett: If you look at baseball overall, I've been looking at Maury Brown on X and he's putting all these different fictional images up of the Dodgers with Godzilla signing a contract with Darth Vader, signing a contract with the Dodgers, that team, 

[00:00:52] Mark Corbett: I'm thinking it seems like I remember Mr. Cohen buying a team a couple of years ago for the Mets that didn't quite pan out. I'm really curious to see what happens with those boys and girls. 

[00:01:03] Mat Germain: I think, I don't want to predict things because we don't know how those guys are going to gel and more than anything, we don't know how their health is going to be overall.

[00:01:13] Mat Germain: What I see with the Dodgers is very dangerous though, like I see a house of cards. Yeah, the likes of which we had we've never seen I thought the Mets last year built a house of cards I called that right away. I said it's going to fall and it's going to be atrocious. Luckily for them, they flipped the switch in season and got some prospects back for some of those ridiculous contracts.

[00:01:36] Mat Germain: But the Dodgers are not going to get that same leeway because of the way they've structured the contracts. So you have a Shohei Ohtani, who's had two Tommy Johns, whatever you want to call the second one. I don't really care. He's going into his thirties as a two way player. And we've never seen.

[00:01:52] Mat Germain: Anybody do that, right? So he's got two surgeries behind him. Now you're telling me that he's going to remain a top 10 hitter in MLB through his entire thirties, while also trying to chip in on the pitching side of things. I see that as an invitation for a major injury. I don't know if it's a shoulder, an oblique, regardless of what it is.

[00:02:16] Mat Germain: I don't think Shohei Ohtani will hit to the level Aaron Judge will, as an example, right? Aaron Judge got 360 million. 

[00:02:24] Mat Germain: I think that was a solid, very reasonable contract for what he's going to produce in New York. To me, if you want to give Ohtani another 40 to 80 million above that, okay, maybe. Because I don't see the pitching side working out through his entire 30s unless he goes to relief.

[00:02:40] Mat Germain: And I don't I think he'll be okay with that. From his personality, he wants to prove to the world that he can do everything, I think. So it's going to be interesting. 

[00:02:52] Mark Corbett: You're Ohtani. You have to have an ultimate confidence. I think back to the time in golf was like Tiger Woods, he exuded confidence.

[00:03:02] Mark Corbett: He brought the game. He didn't have to talk about it. It was just there. And I think that's what people have seen with Ohtani. And I know people expect, I know Ohtani expects it more than anybody else. I don't know that you're going to get it. He's deferring parts of this 10 million contract. So the Dodgers can even expand their expending for this year.

[00:03:20] Mark Corbett: So we'll see how that plays out, but. I don't wish on a hill but some of these teams spend that much money, Matt, I'm eh if you don't win, I'm okay with that. 

[00:03:32] Mat Germain: Yeah. It just becomes it's good. It becomes a lesson learned for other teams. I think a lot of teams looked at what the Padres and Mets did last year, for example, and they're like, Oh, maybe we shouldn't win the off season.

[00:03:44] Mat Germain: And so now you have Boris sitting on a bunch of clients that can't really get the most out of the teams because they all don't want to be that team again. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. Oh 

[00:03:54] Mark Corbett: Let's talk about the team that we love at least today. That's the Tampa Bay race. Unless they change and become the St.

[00:04:01] Mark Corbett: Pete race. Did you see that? 

[00:04:03] Mat Germain: I'm so happy. They stepped that line landmine stepped aside from it because I saw that as a slap in the face that didn't need to be. Yeah. Handed out. I get the frustrations towards the Tampa side of things, especially the councillors who aren't going to open up the vaults for any means of helping the race.

[00:04:24] Mat Germain: It didn't need to happen at all. It was a nice thought. One of those thoughts you have inside your head. But you don't actually speak publicly, right? 

[00:04:32] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. She did. And she said, yeah, it didn't happen though. I'm glad she's happy. And as a council person on over in St.

[00:04:42] Mark Corbett: Pete, but sorry. Anyway, I'm, I don't want to belabor it, but man, when it came down that they're going to build. The new trop for lack of a better phrase, the moment almost next door where it's at and not bringing it over to Tampa. I was completely disheartened. I was not surprised, but I was disheartened.

[00:05:02] Mark Corbett: I really hope to see it somewhere like Ybor. I'd hope that baseball would enjoy the success that the Tampa Bay Lightning and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have enjoyed just mere miles apart. 

[00:05:14] Mat Germain: The way that I'm seeing it is like this, okay? So before the mantra of the Rays potentially leaving started, the Rays were averaging a fair amount, right?

[00:05:24] Mat Germain: Somewhere between 18, 500 to 25, 000 fans per year. Yep. Then the mantra from Sue Sternberg started because he had to build a momentum towards possibly going to Tampa. He tried to turn that up as much as possible over the years. It never worked out, but that turned off a lot of fans and a lot of those fans stopped coming.

[00:05:44] Mat Germain: I think those fans are going to return. And I think when the foot when the the rays get more aggressive marketing wise and seating wise, and there's not that whole tarped off area in the top of the stadium and they build. From what I understand, there's going to be a significant population increase in St.

[00:06:03] Mat Germain: Pete. How much does that add up to? So let's say 5, 000 people increase. How many of those are baseball fans? How many are going to go to games? You could argue all day long about what that means, but let's say you add on another I don't know, be reasonable, like 2000 fans per game on average for the season, then you're talking about a 22, 000 average fan base, which is fine in MLB.

[00:06:28] Mat Germain: They don't expect much more. You're already a top 10 to 12 TV market. And that has a chance to increase over time to the point where the race can fill it. for the majority of the time, right? And I think they'll get there. I think with a new stadium, the way that they're building it, being able to use the restaurant areas year round and that kind of thing, I think that'll help bring the nightlife, which I think is the key for St.

[00:06:54] Mat Germain: Pete, in my opinion. If you bring the nightlife to St. Pete and make it a young base, younger, it doesn't have to be young. It has to be like middle ground, right? And that's what the Padres have done, basically. If they can do that, then I think they'll have a lot of success and the money will come and I think both sides will benefit St.

[00:07:14] Mat Germain: Pete and the Rays because to me, baseball is more of a beachy kind of sport anyway. It doesn't need to be downtown in a city. If you have it near a beach, to me, that sells it right there. You spend the day at the beach, you go to the game after, then you go home. What's wrong with that? That's a good day.

[00:07:31] Mat Germain: I like it, brother. I'd be skipping school if I was in high school. I'd be at the beach and 

[00:07:39] Mark Corbett: don't let the youngsters hear that man. No, I get it. Oh I'm just glad that I guess that something has been settled but I'll tell you occasionally we're going to the Tampa baseball museum and I get pelted with, I've been getting pelted until recently with that question with, I'd say half the people come in.

[00:07:58] Mark Corbett: So what's going to happen with the race? Where's your new stadium? I got to the point where I said, I don't know, lady, I really don't. That's what, but now that it's done, Resolved to that and, but being resolved to a new team for 2024, my friend, that is a place to look before we got started here, we talked a little bit about the hot stove.

[00:08:24] Mark Corbett: We talked about some race players and man. Oh, man. I'm seeing what we're seeing some changes earlier in the year than usual, right? 

[00:08:34] Mat Germain: No, I think it'll be a good thing. And the rays are, I think they keep deepening their talent pool and that's the thing. The versatility is always going to be a prime thing.

[00:08:44] Mat Germain: And I think they, they have a lot of lessons learned under their belt and they're trying to address all those issues that they've went through in the past and do it a little bit differently each time. So I like what they're putting together. Yeah. 

[00:09:00] Mark Corbett: I was really curious though. Cause you know, I never know what's going to happen.

[00:09:04] Mark Corbett: I remember early on when I started becoming a race fan and it was the year before Longoria was traded and people I knew said, I will never ever go to another's race. I will never watch another race game. That's it. But for me, they let Evan go. Evan was the thumbprint of that team. He was You know, an icon of what that team meant.

[00:09:26] Mark Corbett: And since then, there's been several changes and people have dealt with other icons leaving one of them being Mr. Kiermaier himself who's doing quite well up there in Toronto. And just, I think recent another contract. Kiermaier is doing well and the Rays are doing well. Neander's made some sometimes unpopular decisions, but overall he's put a team out there on the field that can play.

[00:09:54] Mat Germain: Every Major League team owner would love love to have what the Rays have in terms of the front office. And the scouting and the analytics, they would pay tens of millions for it. And I'm telling you right now, the race fans are spoiled rotten. I'm sorry, but you can whine and complain about KK long ago, both of which spent a decade with the team, a decade prime years on top of it.

[00:10:28] Mat Germain: And they've done nothing but go to the playoffs over the last five years. And all you hear about is, Oh, they were duds in the playoffs. They went to the world series game six. They were a game and a half. Not even away from winning the World Series, and that doesn't satisfy anybody. You know what? It's just one of those things where it's extremely hard to maintain success in Major League Baseball.

[00:10:48] Mat Germain: The Rays not only still have one of the top systems in MLB, but they're coming off a 9 9 win season with almost the exact same team, and fans still are not satisfied. Just trust the blueprint. Trust the fact that they're looking to improve. They have ways to mitigate things and they always have a plan.

[00:11:09] Mat Germain: It's not always going to work out. There are maybe a handful of trades you can point out to that the race. I don't know what they're thinking. And you can say this, that, the other thing, but it doesn't matter. They were in a position to make that trade and to get that aggressive because of the success they had before that.

[00:11:27] Mat Germain: So yeah, Just be thankful that you don't have to be cheering for a team that pops up every 10, 12, 15 years and says, Hello, we're here, we still exist, and then goes away for another 10, 12 years, right? That's not the way the Rays operate, and that's what I've always appreciated from them. I started covering the Rays way back when, and I still am flabbergasted that they refuse to tank.

[00:11:52] Mat Germain: They have a tank. in the stadium, but they refuse to tank. And to me, that is a pride and character thing that I love. They want to build a cohesive team all the way through the system. That is outstanding. They want high quality people in the organization. They don't want. Wanders out there and when they do get them without knowing about it, they try to address it.

[00:12:18] Mat Germain: They bench them, the best player on the team talent wise. They still said, no, you won't play. You need to change because that's the organization mantra. The Rays are a high quality, high character organization to bottom. Anybody that argues otherwise is a Yankee fan. 

[00:12:39] Mark Corbett: I love it, brother. Yeah, I get that 100%.

[00:12:43] Mark Corbett: And when you're talking about people who grouse about the raises I'm sorry, they didn't hit the century mark this year. What the heck brother? They were so close. We had 13 wins in a row. Oh, why couldn't you go more? You told me early on last year, come on, Mark don't expect this to last.

[00:13:04] Mark Corbett: But, oh my gosh, what an exciting season and they do play as a team. I was happy to see when they bitched from bitched Ben's Franco, because he was making it. Unpleasant with other players, unbeknownst about all that other business going on, just that there must've been an attitude or some remarks and guess what?

[00:13:27] Mark Corbett: I don't care how much you're paying you, your butt sitting down. If you're hurting the team so I was, 

[00:13:33] Mat Germain: I get that. I think what some people might even overlook on that point is that it had to be translated, right? Whatever Franco was saying, probably wasn't saying in English. And so some of those other players on the team had to probably translate it and say, What he's saying isn't good or I don't know, maybe there were incidents where he got a little rough, but I'd never heard anything about that.

[00:13:55] Mat Germain: It's one of those things too, when I look at the entire season, let's say we look at 2023, the Dodgers outspent the Rays by how many hundreds of millions, right? Hundreds, like over 200 million more. And The Rays lost their top three pitchers, they lost Wander Franco, and they lost a bunch of relievers for the majority of the year, and they won one less game than the Dodgers.

[00:14:25] Mat Germain: One! One! The Dodgers spent 200 million more, had the majority of their stars intact, and they couldn't You know, get any further than one game from the race. Think about that. To me, that blows my mind when I think about it that 

[00:14:42] Mark Corbett: way. I love it, brother. I absolutely do. One, because just the it's not even economy of scale.

[00:14:48] Mark Corbett: It's just Good sense, finding great talent, either bringing it up through the farms or being real smart about being able to identify it. What was it with the card? Didn't we see, we made the one trade with Kittredge just recently with the Cardinals, but didn't we get Randy from the Cardinals?

[00:15:04] Mat Germain: Richie Palacios? Yeah, you know what, he just, he replaces Luke Raley. You have a left handed bat in the outfield, excellent defense, can play all three outfield spots if needed. And to me, he has a higher ceiling than Luke Raley, who might have holes in his swing that other people figure. That just that is an example, but all even before that, like when the offseason started and rule five draft was coming around, the Rays refused to lose assets for nothing.

[00:15:36] Mat Germain: So they found a way to make two or three trades, including Vidal Brouhon and Calvin Fauche, who went to Miami and other ones. To rebuild that source of talent below them and make sure that their teams at the, in the minor system are as high quality as possible. And that's what enables them to keep churning that through.

[00:15:57] Mat Germain: There's other organizations like the Yankees, for example, that just lost. I don't know how much town they lost six pitchers in five in the rule five draft that are high quality Matt Sauer belongs on their 40 man roster way more than some of the outfield crap that they have on air and I'm like, what are you doing?

[00:16:15] Mat Germain: You're not protecting Matt Sauer and then you're going to say we don't have enough pitching in the system. Why? Because you're not protecting the right guys, but they're spoiled in terms of being able to fix their errors in other ways. So I think that's what keeps the race. Going overall that I don't think you'll ever be able to get through to a large market team Except for steve cohen in the mets.

[00:16:38] Mat Germain: I think now that they've hired david stearns I see a change in their attitude and the way they operate That might go there and they had that kind of success in milwaukee. I think he's going to You know instill some of that so it'll be interesting when you combine money with some smarts That's saying a lot for the mets.

[00:16:58] Mat Germain: He's gonna have to make some changes, but I think they're gonna head more towards the raise way Than the yankees ever will 

[00:17:07] Mark Corbett: for me. Yeah, I said i've been Curious when all the things were going on with the match with cohen came in And I say, my gosh I've said before look at him. He's going to buy himself a world series.

[00:17:20] Mark Corbett: But the one thing I liked about Cohen, he came across as a fan. He came across as someone who loved the game and loved that team and wanted to see him succeed. They're not just an investment of some sort he's, they're not just a line item on the billion dollars plus, I'm sure what he carries around in his pockets.

[00:17:40] Mark Corbett: I, I'm excited to see that and enthusiasm. I think that. Not necessarily the enthusiasm, but the commitment to winning with a raise is there. And Neander has led that for a long time. Like I said, people love him, people hate him, but if they hate him at the beginning of the season, they usually love him by the end of the season because he's been putting together some great teams.

[00:18:05] Mark Corbett: I 

[00:18:05] Mat Germain: think he it's hard for fans to get to it. I think once they win that one, one world series, it'll solve a lot of those fan issues. Cause that's all they look at. They just look at championship. And even then, if you talk to a Cubs fan this year, do they remember that world series? No, there's they're ripping the franchise apart about Cody Bellinger and Marcus Stroman being gone and not having replacements fans are only going to be as talk to a San Francisco Giants fan they won three and five years and they're still, not content this year and for good reason in some ways But I think what's different with the raise and the reason I get frustrated is because you can see how Hard it is in the al east of all places to contend They've proven over and over and over and over again that they're committed to that year after year that they find ways of doing it whether it be shifts whether it be openers, whether it be whatever.

[00:19:04] Mat Germain: And now despite all those things being addressed by MLB. They're still doing it and fans still aren't satisfied for some reason. I shouldn't say all fans, I think 

[00:19:14] Mark Corbett: some. Enough of them that there's vocal. So I don't know if it's on a thread that something you started or not, but I saw somebody said maybe you guys who haven't been around long enough, haven't, don't remember the Devil Rays when they have had a number of successive seasons that were beneath 90 wins a year and said, hello.

[00:19:33] Mark Corbett: Art, do you need to treasure what you have right there? This is a good time, boys and girls. And I forget the specifics, but I read that and I thought, yeah, 

[00:19:41] Mat Germain: it's true. Like I remember when I covered the blue Jays, my, my big rant was always the rays have had how many first. Overall picks and the Blue Jays never had one.

[00:19:52] Mat Germain: And so how is it that they can't compete like they, they should be way above and beyond everybody else. And at that point, they weren't that the Rays under Andrew Friedman even were a terrible drafting team, terrible, like Atrocious, I would say one of the bottom five and people give him all the credit in the world.

[00:20:12] Mat Germain: He deserves credit, but for different things than the draft. But so I remember the devil raised times as well as one of those things that it was more about the excitement of baseball in the area. Then it was about the performance of the team and any little golden nugget that people could cling on to, whether it was Carl Crawford, Ben Zobris, whatever, that's what they hung on to.

[00:20:33] Mat Germain: And that's why they went to the games and enjoyed it because they did have interesting players in there that we're at the top of their game while they were with the race. I'm still sad that David Price had to leave. Like I think of that group, the one that would have changed fortunes a lot would have been David Price.

[00:20:49] Mat Germain: If they could have. Had the income at that point to make that work there might have been a championship in there somewhere but yeah, these are the things you look back on in a franchise and you say what about this? What if that had happened like in the another example for the race is what if they hadn't stepped away from the charlie morton option?

[00:21:12] Mat Germain: Yeah In my opinion, they win that series and in that year I think that was the game changer for them. It really sucked the wind out of their sails. And I'm hoping they learn from that and that next time to stick to it. 

[00:21:28] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Ground chuck was amazing and I cannot bring his name to the light for the moment, the catcher Denard little D those two guys.

[00:21:40] Mark Corbett: Darnell and Morton just were amazing to watch together and what they were able to achieve. And a lot of people, I think, shook their heads, your race fans like, Oh my gosh, this is a great talent. You're going to let him go. He can kill him there. 

[00:21:55] Mat Germain: Yeah. Yeah. It'd be array. 

[00:21:58] Mark Corbett: Yeah. It's sad, but all this change is going on right now with the hot stove and the race.

[00:22:04] Mark Corbett: We've got a lot going on. I don't we're losing Tyler glass now, but I've wondered what we've seen last year. Then 

[00:22:13] Mat Germain: let's see it as losing Tyler. God, I want people to change that right now. You gained Ryan Pepio, who is going to be much more of a workhorse than Tyra glass now ever could be.

[00:22:25] Mat Germain: Okay. And once the raise analytics gets a hold of the stuff that Ryan Pepio had, they have an advantage. So one of the issues with Tyra glass now is that he has a hand condition that stops him from changing it, from throwing a change up. Okay. He can, you just literally can't do it physically. What's coming from Tyler glass.

[00:22:44] Mat Germain: Now, what's one of the things that kept Justin Verlander and the rest of the old guys effective once their velocity drop was being able to go to the off speed. If you can't do that, you're a dud. So to me the Dodgers are in a dangerous position with tar glass now to the point where he's going to be.

[00:23:02] Mat Germain: Very predictable. So he's going to have to be extremely high command when that velocity drops. I'm not sure with those tall lanky legs and arms and everything flailing that he's going to get around to that. Maybe he does, but I see a drop off from Tyler. Maybe not this year, potentially two years, but like half of that deal to me is might not work out.

[00:23:25] Mat Germain: essentially is the way that I see it. But in Pepio, the Rays have a chance to actually build a full repertoire, what they did with Zach Littell, where they can actually look at a variety of options and really put those into into work for Pepio. And I think if they build them up correctly, him and Baz, Those two can become a really solid front line for the race for the long term.

[00:23:54] Mat Germain: And eventually that'll turn over once they start getting pricey. But by that point, maybe the new stadium will help the race, keep them around for a little bit longer than usual. And Jeffrey Springs coming back to me is a big game changer. When he comes back in the middle of the season, you have that wild card that says, yeah, We can lose one of our starters.

[00:24:15] Mat Germain: That's okay. We have Jeffrey Springs coming back and he's going to be back in like August. So you're not really in a place where you have to panic at the deadline. Like a lot of teams will you have that ACE in to me, I think Jeffrey Springs is going to be an ACE when he returns, he's going to be a frontline guy.

[00:24:33] Mat Germain: So the Razor are in the. One of those positions again where they're gonna have to take three guys off the 60 day I or off the roster and put them on 60 day il. And then you're gonna see what their roster really looks like. 'cause they're gonna add three more players to the roster during spring training.

[00:24:53] Mat Germain: And then you're gonna go, oh, that's what they were leaning towards . 

[00:24:58] Mark Corbett: So are both Shanes gonna be back this year? 

[00:25:01] Mat Germain: No just Boz. And Boz is, I still yes, I get people's tepidation about whether or not he's going to become a guy who can be, have length in games and actually do a full season.

[00:25:19] Mat Germain: Cause like last now, he hasn't been that yet. But I think. If he does, he's going to be one of the most interesting players in the AL East in 2024 because his stuff, pure wise, would be right up there with Coles. So you're looking at a guy who can be a game changer along with Springs. You put Boz Springs and Eflin in a playoff situation and I'm very happy.

[00:25:48] Mat Germain: Pepio is the fourth guy or whatever it ends up being like you have four strong options at the end. And then to me Drew Rasmussen can come back and be a reliever. Why not? He can shut down guys be a two inning guy, maybe bridge the sixth and the seventh whatever you need him for he can be That effective I would not bring him back as a starter because to me that would just kill his career I think it would be done Once that arm goes the next time it's it That's the end of the line for him.

[00:26:16] Mat Germain: So 

[00:26:18] Mark Corbett: using critical situations for a limited 

[00:26:21] Mat Germain: time, be able to rest them extra when you need to. And they did that already. Like they babied him really hard, like through his entire 23 and 22, like there was no reason for the arm to go again. So there's obviously something that he can't carry. And whether that be.

[00:26:38] Mat Germain: The extra rest helps them or not. I don't know. The velocity might just be it. He might have to tweak down the velocity and I'm not sure how effective he'll be at that point. So that's always hard to tell, right? It's, I don't know. It's bad though because Drew Rasmussen has a special talent. He's a frontline guy if he's healthy and chugging.

[00:26:57] Mat Germain: So it's too bad that we can't get to see that full time. And I also think Taj Bradley deserves more credit than he's getting with the race. I don't think that people should put too much weight on Taj Bradley's 2023. If you remember Chris Archer and a lot of the younger pitchers when they first came up, even Blake Snell, people were down on them for two or three years and then boom, everything clicked.

[00:27:23] Mat Germain: It takes time for some of those guys to really. put everything together and have confidence in their repertoire. And I think Taj Bradley has the confidence where it could even happen in 24 at some point. I see him and Shane Boz probably starting in the minors, possibly with Tyler Alexander being in a rotation to start, because they don't have a lefty right now.

[00:27:43] Mat Germain: So there's a chance both of those guys will start down there, or maybe even Pepio, so they can tweak some of his stuff. But Pepio, I think is more MLB ready than the other two. So I would probably see that health willing for all of the guys in 

[00:27:57] Mark Corbett: the rotation, 

[00:27:58] Mat Germain: so we'll see how it works out, but I like the rotation they've built they're still working on the guys, but beneath that.

[00:28:05] Mat Germain: And we'll see if any changes come up. 

[00:28:08] Mark Corbett: I'm excited about all of those players. And when you're talking about pitching and Taj Bradley. Matt, I keep thinking every time I'd see that young man take the mound, I think you may have said this before he even came up, was the sense of confidence he exuded, whether he threw a crap ball way out of place where his face, it didn't change.

[00:28:28] Mark Corbett: It looked like the next ball was the first ball of the game. It didn't matter what the, whatever he threw before his determination and his. Focus did not seem to change no matter what he seemed to throw before 

[00:28:39] Mat Germain: that. And he's not afraid to throw things. That's important, right? There's a lot of guys that are afraid to go inside.

[00:28:44] Mat Germain: He goes inside. He's not ready to do that. He goes high. He goes low. It doesn't, to me, that's important because it gives the. The guys with doing the tactics confidence that they can ask for those things and they can use those things to their advantage. So when he figures out the command and control a little bit better than he has, I see him as a top a top three, at least maybe even a number two guy in the raised rotation eventually.

[00:29:10] Mark Corbett: You mentioned a few guys. I love to see pitching and drew is definitely one of them, but. One of my favorites is the closer himself, the Sasson, Pete Fairbanks. Oh my gosh. You see the steel in that man's ass. And you talk about focus. I would feel a laser going right through my bat. If I looked up at that man, if I was at home plate, it just.

[00:29:35] Mark Corbett: He fascinates me. It's funny. I may have said this before I was at the raised fan fest last year and they were playing some kind of game and he had him and Josh Fleming on stage and it was, did I tell you this story before? Yeah. Okay. I'll never I'll briefly say that was interesting because they have both these players and they had to search for things and in the audience and watching Pete just leap from the stage onto the floor and leap.

[00:30:00] Mark Corbett: Back up. And my heart's going, please, Pete, please, Pete, don't hurt yourself. Don't hurt yourself. It's Oh gosh, but he's one of my favorites. And I said, we're going to see some changes. We know kits gone kits Andrew country is just definitely one that I looked at that I'd like to see their glass now.

[00:30:17] Mark Corbett: And it's, I'm not surprised me. You and I both talked about injuries and what's there that the rest of his career, Margo. Marco I worry a little bit about cause I thought he was a team linchpin somewhat there. You're going to love 

[00:30:32] Mat Germain: Johnny DeLuca. You're going to love him. He's just one of those guys who goes through walls.

[00:30:39] Mat Germain: He really has an intensity about him. That's what I like about both guys. They brought in Richie Palacios and Johnny DeLuca are high intensity guys. And I found. Especially near the end of the season, the Rays seem to get calmer and slower and everything seemed to chug downwards and they need the opposite.

[00:30:57] Mat Germain: You need to get super hyped towards the end so that you're exhausted, but you're like that person like that's running fanatic towards the end line. Like you need to keep going and you need those young guys with healthy legs that are just, they show up every game, they play hard, they lay out the body.

[00:31:14] Mat Germain: Defensively and offensively, and his bat has twice the power that Margot has. So when you're losing a little bit of power from Luke Raley with Palacios, you could argue Raley has a bit more power. Johnny DeLuca makes up for that. And to me, you put him in you put Rosarina in left with Siri in the middle.

[00:31:31] Mat Germain: And that's a really strong right handed outfield. Then you flip that over and you go, okay, Palacios with Josh Lowe. And you can actually, there's, I think, I'm not sure if Jake Mangum is going to come up with a raise, but I've seen a lot of that guy in AAA. He's another guy that lays out the body and can really stretch things out.

[00:31:53] Mat Germain: So if you wanted to, if you're Kevin Cash, and at some point you might see this where you put Jose Caballero and left. And you put palatials in center, or you use mangum then you can see a lot of different options that they have at better depth than they've had in the outfield that I feel personally in a long time, all of them.

[00:32:13] Mat Germain: Have speed, all of them play excellent. D all of them have high intensity. So behind that front line, you've got a really strong, deep, and from what I'm reading on everybody, they're great people on top of it. They're not just. Great players with a lot of a lot of room to grow just with the playing time they're going to get with the race, but when you, that I'll get, I'll use an example because I'm, I pay attention to them very closely because they're in division.

[00:32:41] Mat Germain: But if you bring an Alex Verdugo in who the Red Sox wanted to get rid of at all costs. Yeah. You're bringing a, what I would consider a cancer into the team, right? He's already said, I didn't want to go to the Yankees and then, oh, now I'm adopting them. Yeah, whatever, dude, like you're just, you've got issues and I don't need that around.

[00:33:00] Mat Germain: It's a lot like what happened with Wander. So the Rays have done a good job of filling that second line with really high quality people that are very athletic. And I think it'll drive opposing pitchers nuts because they're at bats are going to be high quality fewer holes overall. And Jose Caballero, I'm really interested with him in the bottom of the lineup, speed and a high OBP.

[00:33:22] Mat Germain: I think that's a game changer that'll really chug the lineup through. And when he becomes a utility guy for them, the same thing. That he'll be a high quality at bat every time. 

[00:33:33] Mark Corbett: One thing I wanted to talk about was catching. And possible, you put forth an idea today and I thought, you know what, that would be so sweet.

[00:33:44] Mat Germain: It's my raised pet peeve. Share it, brother. I don't know if everybody remembers this, but way back when, and this is when I started following the Rays very closely, they were spending money left and center. Chris Betts there was Nick What was his name? Nick. He's the guy that ended up getting caught with marijuana.

[00:34:06] Mat Germain: Yeah, I don't know. Nick oh man, I can't believe he's slipping my mind. Anyway they're spending their top picks, right? And a lot of money. I think Chris Betts might have been a second round pick. But on catchers and they were, it was the same thing on the international side.

[00:34:25] Mat Germain: They went after David Rodriguez. They went after Rinaldo Hernandez. They went, so they were spending a lot of money and a lot of effort in catching. And then at some point when Yander came in, they said, that's it, that's enough. We need to bring in mature catchers that we know what we're getting that are closer and we can tweak them.

[00:34:41] Mat Germain: And that was fine. I'm happy with that. It'll that'll get you in the playoffs, but I want to catch her that wins. Me the world freaking series. I want a jonah hyne. I want that high quality elite guy That's a game changer and to me the rays still are far away from that renee pinto is a fine catcher a no knock on him whatsoever I think over time as he gains more experience, he'll get better But I want to double down on that.

[00:35:10] Mat Germain: I want to bring in a William Contreras because I see the raise window right now. When you look at the roster, you're going to have Shane McClanahan come back next year. You're going to have a whole bunch of talent and they're built for the long run. So why not go and get that catcher when I was praying they would do it with Sean Murphy last year, but the Braves and Alex Anthopoulos beat us at a punch.

[00:35:32] Mat Germain: I want them to go after William Contreras from the Brewers because they have Quero, who's a really high prospect to me. He's, you don't trade a guy like that. He's just, he's got like an 80 grade arm. He's, his IQ is off the charts. He's hitting is off the charts. So they're not going to trade him away. I don't think.

[00:35:49] Mat Germain: So William Contreras, who they got from the Braves was, is a really. Great guy. He was tied in that Murphy deal, actually. So to me, if you're the reason you bring him in and you have Pinto and Contreras, all of a sudden you have the best catching outside of Adley Richmond, NEA at least, and you're able to compete now at the World Series level.

[00:36:11] Mat Germain: You're going for it. You're deep. You got two guys. You can trust out there any day and they could be even be used as DHS or whenever you need to otherwise. So I think that to me is the last missing ingredient of of raised team that can become like the giants of the three years out of five that they won the World Series.

[00:36:36] Mat Germain: If the Rays pull off that kind of move to me, they move themselves into that possibility, where they can win a few championships in a handful of years. Without it, It's a higher struggle. It can happen, but I think that it makes that line up and defensively the team a little bit more susceptible to having those lapses a pass ball, a called game that isn't really as sharp as it should runner that they don't throw out.

[00:37:06] Mat Germain: Whatever you want to call it, to me, the catcher is the captain of the team on the field, and in the playoffs, in particular, because it's a game changer. We saw all through the World Series, and in the playoffs, and other series. I want to see the Rays do that. And to me, that would be a huge signal.

[00:37:23] Mat Germain: Right now, you're hearing a little bit of the mantra of the Rays fans saying, Oh, 25. I'm like, If you do this kind of move and they have the prospects to deal to the brewers to make it happen, that sends a huge signal to everyone. And so I, I would love to see it. I think it's, it would be daring and it would be a game changer at the same time.

[00:37:47] Mat Germain: I think Kevin Cash would appreciate it as well. 

[00:37:51] Mark Corbett: Thank you. Yes. Chance of catcher as a manager to have the juice there. I've talked about this before. I look across all of MLB and the managers, how many of those managers have been catchers because they're captains. I tell the young players, I see him.

[00:38:04] Mark Corbett: I said, you are the captain of this team, whether you realize it or not, you're the one making the calls and you have to understand what's going on at home plate better than anybody. So yeah pivotal position. And. I want to take a quick glance at what you posted for your lineup. And I, first I want to say, Matt, I guess I was almost surprised to see how many of these guys we still had.

[00:38:27] Mark Corbett: I look there and I say, okay, you've got leading off with Yandy Diaz. At first Brandon Lau it's DH, Randy Rosarina at left field, Josh low, Isak Peretti is the third second base, Jonathan Aranda, centerfield, Jose Siri, and see catching at Alex Jackson, Rene Pinto.

[00:38:54] Mark Corbett: I like the ones you're talking about for future catcher. Then shortstop. Then you come back with Jose Caballero. Man, shortstop boy we had Franco. We had walls, we had, geez, didn't Lau even do it a few times? Brandon, 

[00:39:10] Mat Germain: Esau Peres did it for one game. That's right. Yeah. They tried that out just to, I don't know if they were testing to see how it would look.

[00:39:17] Mat Germain: Range would definitely be lacking with Esau there. Yeah. . But he's athletic enough to make it work, like with less range, maybe Derek Jeter style. Maybe not as sm as smart, but the SBE did it for a bit last year, but I still. I come back to the fact that Junior Caminero should get more time there until they get the the Carson Williams 80 grade D up to MLB.

[00:39:45] Mat Germain: I don't know, 80, maybe 70 grade D up to to the raise. I think he's going to be like. Carson Williams has probably the second most power in the entire race system. So having that shortstop is a lot like, it reminds me a bit of Willie Adamus but with more power. So Willie Adamus was a steady force and maybe Carson Williams is a bit better defensively than Willie was or to this point in his career anyway.

[00:40:12] Mat Germain: And then he has a lot more power. And I think when you hear Carson Williams, Speak in his interviews and what he says, he's a very intelligent, self aware player. I think he'll put in the work that he needs to improve his hitting ability. And to me, that's important, right? Like having the, Oh, I'm not a superstar by any means.

[00:40:33] Mat Germain: I need to keep putting the work to become a better player. That's huge. And I love to hear it in the AFL. He was mentioning a lot of that. So I I think the Rays are going to be lucky to have him as the backup option to Wander Franco by the end of the year. It'll subside a lot of worries and a lot of issues.

[00:40:53] Mat Germain: And then you can have Taylor Walls and Jose Caballero as utility players, which is fine. I don't mind those guys in that role. And I'm curious to see what Taylor Walls hip surgery results in, right? Because I, there's a lot of throws, especially charging towards home plate and then making the throw to first base.

[00:41:09] Mat Germain: I didn't know there was a hip issue, so there's a lot of those throws that could have been thrown off from the motion of the hips, and those were the ones that pulled his defensive ability down through the year that he made some really weird errors on. Maybe those go away, and then his hitting especially, like maybe his hitting improves to the point where he becomes a short stop that can start at the MLB level, then the razor just You know, fat and 

[00:41:36] Mark Corbett: happy.

[00:41:37] Mark Corbett: Oh, I like that. I like that. If anything, Matt, I got to say you have shared enough with us for anybody who's feeling poorly about Tyler leaving. There's a lot of good things happening with the raise for 2024. So get your head out of your backside folks and realize. There is sunshine somewhere else besides there that you can find.

[00:41:59] Mark Corbett: And I'm looking forward to it, man. I've got to try to make out some of the spring training. I'll be here before you know it. Jeez. Can you believe that? Wayne going down. I'm like, I really want some heat. 

[00:42:11] Mark Corbett: We got to get you down here to Florida, my friend. Yeah. And of course they've had heavy rains come through here.

[00:42:18] Mark Corbett: Unlike you guys dealing with some heavy snow, I believe. Getting 

[00:42:22] Mat Germain: 25 centimeters tomorrow, so it should be fun. First snow of the year though, so I can't complain. Good, 

[00:42:28] Mark Corbett: Oh man I can't thank you enough, Matt. That's Matt Germain. That's M A T underscore Germain, G E R M A I N underscore. And I'll have this in the notes as well.

[00:42:38] Mark Corbett: Matt always has something great to say on Twitter. New insights. My gosh, and Matt, you track so much with the minor leagues. I absolutely, I loved reading stuff that you're writing last year early on about Junior Caminero. I was like, who is this guy? And even Taj Bradley and some other ones.

[00:42:56] Mark Corbett: So folks, if you're interested in actually seeing what now with phrase raised look like now, what they're going to be in the future, massive got to go to on Twitter again. That's Matt M A T. Underscore germane G E R M a I N underscore. So check him out and Matt, I can't thank you enough, brother, for sharing your wit and wisdom and a friendship today on the show.

[00:43:17] Mat Germain: No problem at all. I'm glad that we shook the rust off of the holiday period and 2024 is underway, buddy. 

[00:43:26] Mark Corbett: All right. Thanks a lot, man. It's been wonderful. And once again, having you here and I look forward to talking with you real soon, buddy. All right. Take care. All righty.

[00:43:37] Mark Corbett: See, I'll put the closer stuff on later. I can't even think, but Lisa, geez, I only waited 15 minutes before I hit record. Jeez. What's the issue? Jeez.