RaysUp - Maddon at the Museum, Yankees Torpedo Bats a new PED, George Steinbrenner Field,

287 - Tampa Baseball Museum - Josh Weaver

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: . Welcome to BaseballBiz on Deck. I am Mark Corbett. Of With me of course, is Mr. Mat Germain. And today Mat and I have a very special guest. We're talking about Josh Weaver, the curator of the Tampa Baseball Museum.

[00:00:15] Mark Corbett: We're gonna be talking with him. We're gonna be talking about the Tampa Bay Rays. We're talking about the opening week and all the insanity that has followed from that. And of course, that little move across the water to, uh, George Steinbrenner field. I keep wanting, say stadium guys, but, uh, welcome everybody.

[00:00:31] Mark Corbett: How you doing?

[00:00:32] Mat Germain: Excellent. We're, we're living the dream up here in Canada, and I know you guys are, are A little bit warmer than we are still, but, uh, I think we're doing well. 

[00:00:42] Mark Corbett: Yeah. How about you, Josh? 

[00:00:43] Josh Weaver: Doing well. Thanks Mark. 

[00:00:45] Mark Corbett: You know, we've been talking time and again, time and again about what's gonna happen with the, the new trop, the development over in St.

[00:00:53] Mark Corbett: Pete, all the back and forth between the city and the county, and all the executives at the, uh, at the Rays. And it just, anytime anybody would ask me, well, what, what's happening with it? What's, what's the stadium? When's it gonna happen? I was like, like, but just stop talking to me. Walk away. Mat knows this about me.

[00:01:11] Mark Corbett: It's just, it's, it's just that, uh, fingernails on the chalkboard. But I was not surprised when we heard that the rays are basically, they're gonna walk away from that whole March 31st deadline and putting together a whole new stadium. Now, Mat , correct me if I'm wrong here, there's still, uh, obligation for the Rays and the City of St.

[00:01:38] Mark Corbett: Pete through 2028. For a stadium for them to be able to play there. So they're going to have to invest to keep it working 

[00:01:47] Mat Germain: well. Yeah. I, I think there's new news today that came out about that actually. It's funny that you bring it up, but I think, um, you know, assuming I, I imagine there's certain conditions that have to be met for that to be the case.

[00:02:02] Mat Germain: So, St. Pete, I know when they initially looked at it, they seemed to think that it was gonna take until 2028 to even get it fixed initially. Right. And now they're saying it's not just the roof that has to be fixed, it's a bunch of the other stuff that's the infrastructure inside the building as well, which may take longer.

[00:02:20] Mat Germain: So I think what you're gonna see happen is probably, you know, at some point a decision being made that we're not going to be ready. For 20, 26 season, and then they'll have to make some sort of deals. What those look like. I mean, you could go from left field all the way to right field. They, there's no, yeah.

[00:02:38] Mat Germain: Everything is possible. And that's kind of the way it's been with the stadium issues, like you pointed to. There's been no certain direction with any of this at any point in time. Um, and, and it's, it's unique. Let's just 

[00:02:52] Mark Corbett: put it that 

[00:02:52] Mat Germain: way. 

[00:02:54] Mark Corbett: You're you're too kind. You're too kind. I, I was, there's an article of the Tampa Bay temp just put up A little while ago, and today is actually Wednesday, April the second one of the pieces they're talking about is the roof replacement includes.

[00:03:08] Mark Corbett: $100,000 set aside for tariffs imposed on imports. So, 

[00:03:15] Mat Germain: oh, 

[00:03:16] Mark Corbett: that was, 

[00:03:17] Mat Germain: that was low level Mark, because they're coming out with new ones every day, so who knows. 

[00:03:21] Mark Corbett: I know. We're gonna double those up, baby. It's, but you know, it, what it does show to me is some forethought about things gonna happen. You know, sort of like when you're planning on building a new stadium saying everything's gonna be perfect.

[00:03:34] Mark Corbett: We've got timelines, we got deadlines, it's all gonna happen. And if it doesn't, well the whole world implodes. I mean, that, that was kind of the plan with the Rays at it is just sad. Uh, give, give us some words here, Josh, so don't let me just bounce this ball around without saying something back. 

[00:03:52] Josh Weaver: I think, you know, it's gonna be interesting, like you said, if it, if they are not ready for next year, I.

[00:03:59] Josh Weaver: All the work they've done this year, it's Stein burner field. You know, I just seems logical. I mean, I don't know anything anybody else doesn't know, but it just seems logical that if it turns out that it ain't broke this year at Steinbrenner Field. 

[00:04:12] Mat Germain: Yeah, 

[00:04:12] Josh Weaver: I can see them just continuing there. I mean, you know, they've done a lot, you know, they work well with the Yankees, obviously, to make this happen because you talk about a monumental task to get two teams that, you know, fight each other like cats and dogs in the American League East, but somehow can get together and have enough mutual respect for one another as teams to get this accomplished.

[00:04:35] Josh Weaver: I don't know that you could just make this mix with any other team. I think it's a special relationship, um, between the Rays and the Yankees and, and it is, it is gonna be interesting to see, uh, obviously this, we're at the very beginning of the season, but to see how these two teams are playing so far this season, this could, this could be AL ong season and long good season at th burner field between.

[00:04:58] Mat Germain: I do wanna say something though like. The, the Yankees are not doing this out of charity, right? Oh, true. Like they are making $11 million with a franchise affiliate that probably never brings half of that in over the course of a season. So like, they're making out A little bit of money. So essentially the rays are paying for one of their lower end players on their roster, uh, or enriching their affiliate, you know, in some way, shape or form.

[00:05:27] Mat Germain: So they may pay for some renovations down the road with this money. They may, you know, use it in whatever way they want. So I, I definitely, I agree with you. You're, you're talking, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to the Rays thing there. I would pitch a tent, I would start building things and I would claim it as mine.

[00:05:44] Mat Germain: You know, like the commercials that they used to have about the Volkswagen where the guy goes over and he licks the handle and he says, it's mine now. You can't have it back. That's basically the way I see the Rays with Steinbrenner field. They gotta, they gotta do something that makes it theirs forever.

[00:06:00] Mat Germain: Where the Yankees are like, yeah, we don't want that back. Thanks. 

[00:06:05] Mark Corbett: Well, you know, I, I would love to see that, man. I don't know if I'd be licking any card door handles, but, geez, that would, that would, there's a lot. Nevermind. I'll, I can go down a dark road there. Uh,

[00:06:19] Josh Weaver: and Mark, we shouldn't lick the railings at, at Steinbrenner either. The whole, yeah. 

[00:06:25] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I, I, I think that's probably a, a great choice. I've, I've heard they cleaned it up, but still, woo. You know, it's, it's interesting though, watching the games at Steinbrenner . Mm-hmm. One, you've got a full house. Yeah.

[00:06:38] Mark Corbett: You've got what, A little less than 11,000 folks in there, and. It's great too because when, if you were to get a chant together, even if there's only 50 of you, it's gonna sound like the whole freaking stadium because you're such AL arge part of that 10,000 or 11,000 folks that are there. It's, it's, uh, I've enjoyed watching the crowd, but I do miss somebody, and I think I may have sent you all a note on this, and that's the Critchfields.

[00:07:05] Mark Corbett: And if the name doesn't mean anything to you folks out there, the Critchfields are a very essential part of every broadcasted game of the Rays at Tropicana Field because when they have that shot and you're looking directly at that batter right behind them in the first two seats just to the left, you would see a man and a woman who were there at every game and they were both always dressed very well, they looked very proper.

[00:07:31] Mark Corbett: And that's the Critchfields. And I don't see 'em out in the heat and the sun out there, man. I don't know if they got special place on the press box farm or what, but I miss those folks. You 

[00:07:42] Josh Weaver: know, Mark, it's funny 'cause I actually was thinking about the same thing and it's like there's such a staple, you can almost figure out when Jack and Mary are gonna take their, their, get their ice cream, get their popcorn, you can kind of time the game by what they're doing in the course of a game and what they're eating.

[00:07:59] Josh Weaver: So, no, it is funny, but I thought the same thing. 

[00:08:03] Mat Germain: Yeah. What I kept, yeah, what I kept thinking about was how it still looks like spring training. I still haven't been able to detach into the regular season because it still has that, A little bit of that spring training feel to the stadium as well. 

[00:08:17] Mark Corbett: I wonder if the players have some of that too.

[00:08:19] Mark Corbett: I mean, even though they've got this whole Rays branding, the, the supposedly 3000 pieces have been replaced in there. It's still 'cause the size and, and you've actually been inside or should be on that field before as a player. You've played there in spring training. What, what's, what's different? I don't know man.

[00:08:39] Mat Germain: I think as a, as a, you look at the MLB stadiums, the biggest difference that I see is not only like, yes, the stands are, are only go to a certain height. Like they're not as tall as the other MLB stadiums, but it's the outfield. Yeah. Like, there's almost literally no fans in the outfield and to me that's the potential eventually is to add those fans, you know, outside of the outfield, uh, eventually adding tiers, doing whatever you do if you end up staying there.

[00:09:05] Mat Germain: But I think that's the ambiance thing. So as a, a player that went through the minors, you would've seen that at every stadium you went. Like there's never any stands in the outfield when you're in the minor league, you know, stadiums. So you still feel like you're going back in time. So really for some of the Rays guys, it's like reliving their youth or for the guys that we could talk about right now, like the, uh.

[00:09:28] Mat Germain: Mangum, uh, Mead, uh, Meisner, it makes them feel at home to them. It's not a foreign environment. It's almost A little bit more welcoming for them to stretch their legs out, get their feet under them in that stadium, because it is familiar. They've been there before and it's, it's still feels A little bit more like what they're used to or what they grew up with.

[00:09:49] Mat Germain: So I, I see it as a really good thing for a young team that has a lot of ingredients and, and players coming up from the miners this year. And, and then potentially la uh, next year, like what Josh was saying with, you know, them potentially sticking around another year, uh, then Carson Williams, Chandler Simpson, all those guys get acclimated in a very, very, very comfortable environment.

[00:10:12] Mat Germain: And, and, you know, yes. You, you end up going to Yankee Stadium on a road trip. Yes. You end up going with, but you also get the benefit of being in a familiar stadium otherwise. 

[00:10:23] Mark Corbett: Well, that's gonna be interesting. I, I like what you're saying about these youngsters. About the familiarity of that type of stadium and well, uh, um, without putting anything in today for, for the Wednesday's game, I think Mag, I hate wanna say Magnum.

[00:10:38] Mark Corbett: Mangum had, uh, put up had what? Seven of eight at bats. He had a hit. Whoa. You know, I, I mean, today is A little bit more difficult. He had, uh, Paul Skenes pitch to him today and that's just an amazing person. I think he still got a hit during the day. There's only like three hits on the, from the Rays on today's game.

[00:10:58] Mark Corbett: Think Yoy was one and maybe Belo, I'm not sure. But, uh, we talk about these young guys playing in a familiar field type. What happens when they wind up actually traveling and going to AL arge stadium? 

[00:11:15] Mat Germain: The good thing is that early in the season, they're mostly at home. That's right. So they're not gonna do much on the road really.

[00:11:21] Mat Germain: So, yeah, it's kind of an intriguing way of looking at it. Well, it'll be interesting to see if it lasts. 

[00:11:27] Mark Corbett: Could you believe, I mean, we talked before about the prospects and all that. Would you have guessed that Mangum would've played as well as he has thus far? Mat , 

[00:11:38] Mat Germain: I always knew he had the hit tool. Yeah. So with that, that to me, it, it, it's more of the, you know, the power.

[00:11:44] Mat Germain: I think that A little surges here and there that he's shown. I think he's, he's muscled up A little bit and he's gotten A little bit more of his man body going. So, um, I think, uh, him and Cameron Meisner is, is one that stands at the plate. And I see a lot of Cody Bellinger in them. Yeah. The way he stands up straight and he's kind of a bigger dude and, uh.

[00:12:03] Mat Germain: I, I think he's, he's kind of changed his approach A little bit at the plate and how he app, uh, how he attacks the baseball and how patient he is. 'cause he used to be very, uh, aggressive early in accounts and he seems to be laying back A little bit. So that's, that's a change I've seen with Cameron Meisner and it's, it's benefiting him, um, because he, it's allowing him to see more pitches and, uh, yeah, it, both of them, like those two guys are definitely, uh, taking hold of the opportunity that the Joshua injury brought on.

[00:12:33] Mat Germain: And, and that's great to see and that's why the Rays, I mean, you want to have competition all the time. You want to make sure that you're always pushing the envelope with these guys so that they don't feel secure in their spots and they always feel like the heat is under them and, and they need to perform.

[00:12:48] Mat Germain: So, uh, I think they all seem to get along too. And Johnny DeLuca has looked pretty good as well overall. So yeah, the outfield has been surprisingly productive and it's helped the bottom of the lineup produce a lot of runs for the Rays. 

[00:13:02] Mark Corbett: It's exciting and as long as we're doing parallels to, as far as the field goes, Brandon Lowe's done.

[00:13:10] Mark Corbett: Okay. He's got, uh, two home runs, I think thus far. So before today, I think that was like , 40% of the games that he's played, he's had a home run. So I am excited to see that.

[00:13:21] Mark Corbett: So I keep thinking, you know, right field over there at the, at Yankee Stadium, and I can't help but think of the first, was it the first game that the Yankees played this year? And man, it was, was it against? 

[00:13:35] Mat Germain: He exploded. 

[00:13:36] Mark Corbett: Oh Lord. Poor Nestor Cartes. I mean, what was it? He, he's up there. He's pitching. First pitch home run.

[00:13:44] Mark Corbett: Second pitch of the game, home run. Third pitch of the game, home run. Those torpedo bats were just pummeling him, man. I mean, it's, he, I, he just couldn't get it together. I mean, it, I felt so much for him and, you know, that he used, he used to play for them, if I remember correctly. And, uh, geez, I, I felt so bad for Nestor.

[00:14:04] Mark Corbett: I tell you, 

[00:14:06] Mat Germain: I think he's, he's pitching hurt. I think all of us last year saw that when he went in into the playoffs, he wasn't supposed to be available. He made himself available because he said, you know what, if I tear something, if something happens medically, um, I, I'll be fine. I'll be able to make, you know, say I pushed it and, and, and it was because he was going for a World Series win, he said, it's worth it.

[00:14:28] Mat Germain: Um, so I firmly believe that he's not at his best, right. Physically. Um, so just starting from that and their familiarity with them, they know the, the whole book wide open on him because of the time he spent with them. And he's not really a, a power guy. He's had to modify his routine to the point where it's almost a circus before the ball starts coming to the plate.

[00:14:51] Mat Germain: So, so I mean, he, he, he's one step away from having a red curtain open and the ball just appear as you know, and, and, and I think that's an indication that your stuff is just degrading to the point where you probably need to, uh, get whatever medical issues you need to sort out, sorted out so that you can actually be effective.

[00:15:10] Mat Germain: But I will say those torpedo bat issues like. Explain this one to me, Mark. 'cause this is where I'm coming from. Okay. You spend all of spring training with no torpedo bats. No, I didn't see one Yankee use a torpedo bat during spring training, first regular season game, all of a sudden these torpedo bats come out of the woodwork.

[00:15:32] Mat Germain: I don't know where they were keeping them. And then they're gonna tell me that there's nothing special, there's nothing to worry about. No, no, no, no, no. They're, they're perfectly legal. There's nothing wrong with these. You know, I think what we found is the equipment version of PEDs , with , these bats.

[00:15:48] Mat Germain: And so when you're at that point, you're like, okay, well fine. They're gonna give them to everybody now everybody's gonna rack up a bunch of stats, you know, using these bats. Elle de la Cruz went crazy with his the first night he had it, and everybody's starting to adopt them now. And I said to somebody on Blue Sky, I was like, this is just a racing, erasing baseball history.

[00:16:09] Mat Germain: Yeah. Because. Sure if what you're looking for is more offense from players and yes, they're using a bat, there's no steroids. So now the controversy goes away because they're not hurting their bodies, they're not doing something illegal. There's no rule in the rule book against it. Now all of a sudden you're getting what you want, which is more offense.

[00:16:26] Mat Germain: Well, great. But yeah, but you just erased all of baseball history and, and it's even more, uh, or even worse than the base being bigger and, and the base is being closer together and all that stuff like that was ridiculous in its own right. And that did erase the stolen base category in my mind. And so now there's the before and the after that rule of change.

[00:16:49] Mat Germain: Right. But these torpedo bats, I mean, you're gonna ruin pitcher's careers with these things if they keep going the way they are. 

[00:16:58] Mark Corbett: Well, we've talked before and I think Josh, you and I too, about Rickey Henderson with, you know, when suddenly you got larger bases. And the other changes made as far as like how many times a pitcher can throw over to first, those sort of things that changed.

[00:17:12] Mark Corbett: I mean, so all the things that Rickey Henderson achieved, they're, they're no longer the same. I mean, you can't use the same measuring stick these torpedo bats. Hey, what do you think, Josh? 

[00:17:23] Josh Weaver: Well, I think if Rickey had the bat, he'd drive in himself a lot more. So we'd have to see we full invasive,

[00:17:35] Josh Weaver: you know, because Rickey was, I mean, one of my all time favorites growing up. I mean, you gotta give him, and it's gonna be interesting. I mean, think about what you said, Mat , is like with the pitching, I would not, I don't know that I want to be in a pitcher in this era. I mean, look at the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[00:17:51] Josh Weaver: I mean, what is going to be considered a Hall of Fame pitcher at some point with all the changes, the bases, and you have the, the, you know, the new, the, these torpedo bats. There's a lot to think about because we're never gonna see a 300 pitcher again. And then what, you know, what becomes that stat? And then on the other side, like you guys are saying, okay, is 500 home runs gonna be enough anymore to get into the Hall of Fame?

[00:18:16] Josh Weaver: It could flip both.

[00:18:19] Mat Germain: I think, I think the, the win thing has always to me, has always been ridiculous. A win is a team stat. It should not be assigned to a pitcher and especially the way that they do it, which is sometimes a, a pitcher can show up, pitch two thirds of an inning and get the win, which is absolutely bonkers to me.

[00:18:37] Mat Germain: It's like the win is a team stat and keep it a team stat, get credited to the team. If you even want to give bonuses out to teams for having the wins that would incent, uh, you know, and add an incentive for them to actually perform well and not tank like a lot of teams are doing. So I think there's like that whole win thing.

[00:18:55] Mat Germain: I'm, uh, I think for the Hall of fame considerations needs to go away and we need to modernize that in terms of what they would actually go into Hall of Fame for. I mean, I think to me right now in the modern day, FWAR and BWAR are the stats that you want to hone in on and they tell you the value because there is.

[00:19:16] Mat Germain: In part, at least it's the first time I can think of where it's not just your eyes telling you what the defensive value of a player is. And, and so we're starting to get, I know they're not perfect anywhere near perfect, but we're starting to assign defensive value, which I think has been undervalued for Hall of Fame voting.

[00:19:35] Mat Germain: And so I've told Mark this before where you look at somebody like Kevin Kiermaier, you know, probably the best center fielder of our era, right? And, and so defensively and, and what you're gonna keep him out of the Hall of Fame because he didn't hit more than a certain amount. Like there's, there are other reasons than the bat to go into the Hall of Fame, right?

[00:19:55] Mat Germain: So if you want to tell the story of how great defensive players were in our era, you can't do it without Kevin Kiermaier. You literally can't. Same thing with the add Molina blowing behind the plate with, uh, with St. Louis, regardless of what his offensive categories are, he was just a great defensive player that should be recognized for that.

[00:20:14] Mat Germain: Right? So I think the B War and F war capture those to a certain point, and now stat cast can actually be used A little bit as well and maybe draw some of those things into it. Uh, the add A little punch.

[00:20:28] Mark Corbett: Pardon me? 

[00:20:28] Mat Germain: That's all good. Elevator music. 

[00:20:33] Mark Corbett: Oh, 

[00:20:35] Mat Germain: sorry. 

[00:20:36] Mark Corbett: I love it. I love it. You did it before. It's, it is perfect. Oh gosh. You know, I, as this season started opening week, I, there's a couple things I wanna make reference to. One of 'em is a guy I love watching. He played just a few games with the Rays and.

[00:20:52] Mark Corbett: Pitched, I think about 10 of them, Nate Eovaldi. And I love watching that guy and he just seems to keep getting better as he gets older. I know he is, had challenges in the past, but my gosh, he is absolutely amazing to watch. I mean, was it, uh, yesterday? Yeah. He, he, uh, threw nine shutout innings , it's a, it's a miracle to watch that guy play. He's just a, the, the talent he's is exudes out there and what he's able to accomplish is, and how many different ways he can put that ball across the plate. It's amazing. 

[00:21:26] Mat Germain: I'm glad that you brought him up, Mark.

[00:21:27] Mat Germain: And, and the reason as a Rays fan that I'm glad you brought a Mark up is because I see his track record in terms of how he got to where he is, the same way that Drew Rasmussen's been brought up. Now, having said that, I thi I don't think Nate a Eovaldi spent as much time in the pen initially as Drew did.

[00:21:45] Mat Germain: Yeah. But, uh, injury history wise and, and stuff wise, they're very similar in terms of how they approach the game and how dominant they can be when they're on. And, and, and so when I look at the rays using Drew Rasmussen still as a starter, I'm, like I said, in a. A message out earlier this week, like I'm crossing my fingers and toes hoping that he stays healthy.

[00:22:07] Mat Germain: But if there's any hope out there to say yes, he can remain healthy if he does the right thing. Nate Eovaldi is the example, right? He had his two surgeries and he was able to maintain now with a strict regimen and whatever. Yes, he's had little hiccups here and there, but generally speaking, it shows yes, you can still start, hey, despite all the injuries and make it a, you know, AL engthy career thereafter.

[00:22:32] Mat Germain: So, crossing my fingers, drew can do the same. 

[00:22:36] Mark Corbett: Oh, me too, man. He, I'm so concerned when you hear about those things with Drew and what Nate has achieved. Net, see, he's been since 2011. He was with the Dodgers back then. He's been, since then. He's been with, uh, let's see, the, the Marlins, the Yankees, us for what I say, 10 games.

[00:22:55] Mark Corbett: 10 games with us. Boston for the better part of about five or six years, and now three years with Texas. But he has found ways to reinvent himself as he's gotten older and it's just amazing to watch him. But it's, so I did wanna bring him up. Now when I think about Nate, another pitcher, I always used to like, who, who went to the Braves, and that was, uh, Charlie Morton.

[00:23:17] Mark Corbett: But don't wanna talk about Charlie, but I do wanna talk about that team. I do wanna talk about the Atlanta Braves. Take guess. I mean, think about this. They have not won a single game yet. I, I, what is it? Oh, and five or oh and six at this point. Now, here's the other thing. It is may the second. They have not had an opening day at home yet.

[00:23:39] Mat Germain: They have April, second, April. That's not gonna, Lord 

[00:23:44] Mark Corbett: Geez is there a month. Thank you for the boy little bird. I skipped 

[00:23:49] Mat Germain: a month. I was like, what? What am I drinking here? Is there not 

[00:23:52] Josh Weaver: enough? Mat ? We are having a heat wave down here, so I think, I think that's why Mark's thinking we're a month ahead. 

[00:23:58] Mark Corbett: Oh, I'm thinking Derby.

[00:23:59] Mark Corbett: That's what it is. Boys and girls, you know, my mind begins the first week of May and there's, there's Derby, but yeah, April, April 2nd. And the Braves have not yet played at home. And that's gotta be, that's gotta hurt. Plus they been, they're playing the Dodgers, I think right now. Let's see, bringing it up 

[00:24:18] Mat Germain: more.

[00:24:18] Mat Germain: They're going, they're going through every single type of, of issue though. I, I like, I feel bad for them because they, they've built a nest of players that are like getting ridiculous deals from them. Like, uh, the Acuna, um, contract that they signed, all the extension, the Ozzie Albies. Every single one of them was outstanding.

[00:24:40] Mat Germain: There was always, they were always getting good value for the dollars they were spending. But just to go through the, the number of players, like they have Ronaldo Lopez just got surgery on his, uh, shoulder. They had Profar get a 80 games suspension for his, uh, stupidity. Um, they had Sean Murphy, nacho Alvarez, Ronald Deya, J Junior, Spencer Strider, uh, I mean, you're talking just between Spencer Strider and Ronald Acuña Jr. Jr.

[00:25:09] Mat Germain: Two of the best 10 players in the, in the game that haven't played yet. So. Although they're having the roughest of Rough Starts, they are the kind of team that can turn the tables on that season extremely quickly and still find themselves in the, in a playoff spot. And, uh, and with Alex Anou making the moves, there's no doubt in my mind he's gonna shake every tree until, uh, you know, coconuts start coming down and he gets the right one that he can actually crack open and, and draw some good stuff out of.

[00:25:45] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I mean, I love to pick on the teams, but we're only five, six games into this season. Well, look at this, these guys. Yeah. Well, uh, but in who they playing? They talking about the Braves room again, real quickly. They played the, uh, the Padres and how they're playing the Dodgers and they're not, and they haven't been home.

[00:26:00] Mark Corbett: So, um, I, we expect some of that to change. And certainly with all the, the things you pointed out, including pro FARs, like good gravy, you wake up poison girls, you learn, learn a few things about the game with the do's and don'ts and, and don't do those things. Um, I was happy to see the Marlins are doing, you know, fairly well right now.

[00:26:18] Mark Corbett: They're looking good. So, uh, let's see what else is going on. Looking across any team jumping out to you, anything else, Mat or Josh? 

[00:26:28] Mat Germain: How 

[00:26:28] Mark Corbett: about the White Sox? Ho ho Please tell that one. I know. 

[00:26:32] Mat Germain: Yeah. Like, who did, who saw that one coming? So everybody's been bashing on the White Sox and seeing how they're, um, they're done for the year.

[00:26:40] Mat Germain: They're never gonna, you know, go out there and, and, and win another game. And they're tied with everybody else in the, in the central. And it actually looked pretty good in their, in their first couple of series. And I think that the pitching in particular, when I cut it down and I looked at the Rays, 'cause I, I think the Rays pitching has been the most dominant overall in, in major League baseball.

[00:27:01] Mat Germain: And there's a lot of reasons for that. But one of them was, they weren't allowing any walks. I think they allowed one walk or two until today when they allowed a few more. But, um. Yeah, the white songs have just been pitching well and so it's kept them in the games and uh, they rank in the top five in Major League baseball to this point.

[00:27:20] Mat Germain: Uh, and it just goes to show that, you know, baseball, you can't judge And Marlins are the same thing where they're pitching their way too competitiveness so far. So baseball is one of those games where if you play good defense and you get good pitching, you can beat anybody on any night. It's just the way that it works.

[00:27:37] Mat Germain: And so a lot of these teams and assumptions that are made by people and preseason, they'll always tell you they know everything. And, and whoever paid the most dollars will come out on top and the next dollars and the next dollar. It's just not how it works. So it's fun to see them have some early success and to get, uh, get some of the fans back in the stands.

[00:27:59] Mat Germain: 'cause I'm sure they know it's still gonna be a rough ride. Um, but, uh, you know, I always like to cheer for the underdog and to me, that's what the White Sox are this year. So. 

[00:28:09] Mark Corbett: Yeah. What was it? 41 wins last year, I think. My gosh. Yeah, they were, see them right now. What is it actually, if you look at the standings with them with five games, most everybody else there has had six, but they're two and three, which puts, gives 'em a percentage of 400.

[00:28:27] Mark Corbett: Everybody else is beneath them in the Central Guardians. 3 33 Royals, 3 33 Tigers, 3 33, uh, twins with only one win and four losses at level 200 on wins of loss percentages. And I would love to see the white, so just come back strong. You know, I have, I mean, I have favorites in, in the American League Central.

[00:28:49] Mark Corbett: One of 'em is 'cause it's traditional. I like the Royals. I've always liked them because, uh, they're a great team and, uh, they're, they're catcher Salvador. He's, um, he's always been somebody I've enjoyed watching the, the Guardians. Well, you know, Kevin Cash came from there. Francona came from there. Then, uh, they've got a couple, they had, uh, who's the fellow who's been there forever, who's the veteran player for, uh, with the Guardians?

[00:29:15] Mat Germain: Uh, Jose Ramirez. Thank you. But he's hurt right now, I believe. 

[00:29:19] Mark Corbett: Yeah, he's, uh, he's always been a favorite of mine. Then Naylor moved on and he's somewhere else now. He used to be with them, so anyway. Yeah, it's, it's pretty neat seeing, uh, white Sox up there at the top. , Josh, you got any insights you wanna share about any of the teams?

[00:29:36] Josh Weaver: Uh, well being the, and I'll try not to be too, too bad on, but I, I can't help it. It's the American League Central. ? I mean, sometimes they barely limp into the playoffs because somebody has to make it to the playoffs from that, that division. 

[00:29:53] Mat Germain: It's a fact. 

[00:29:54] Mark Corbett: I get it. I get it. 

[00:29:57] Mat Germain: Yeah. Who would you say is a, is one of the more disappointing starts outside of the Braves?

[00:30:04] Mark Corbett: Geez,

[00:30:06] Mark Corbett: We're gonnAL ean on you, Josh, 

[00:30:07] Josh Weaver: no, I, I, that's a, I don't know the answer to that. 'cause I, 

[00:30:13] Mat Germain: the Red Sox are one in four and Rafael Devers has become a ghost. And, and so it's, it's just one of those things that I know Mark and I, and Josh, I know you probably know, know this, but we threw a lot of pRays at the Red Sox, , when we were doing a show earlier.

[00:30:28] Mat Germain: , but it just goes to show that early on, there's, there's rust, there's a million different reasons why you could have a slow start, but they're a great example of a team that, um. That, you know, has pressure on them because that, like we said, the, you know, a AL central is fine. You can have a slow start and not be too far behind.

[00:30:47] Mat Germain: When you're in the AL east, you're, you're in a beast and, and you need to have your game on. And so Rael, I think is feeling a lot of pressure to, uh, to perform as a DH full-time. And it's not always easy to change that role. I, 

[00:31:01] Mark Corbett: I wonder if it's something where he just says, you know what, f it, just forget it.

[00:31:07] Mark Corbett: You're not gonna be putting me out there and 

[00:31:10] Mat Germain: make $324 million Mark. Like, if somebody was paying me that just to hit, I'm sorry, but I would pour my heart into it. 

[00:31:19] Mark Corbett: Yeah. I, I, I don't think he's, I guess he's not sitting down this, but he, I don't think he's motivated either. I mean, that's a whole lot of dough, but, and I'm sure there's incentives in there to keep him making A little bit more.

[00:31:31] Mark Corbett: So I don't know. But I, that song after the first few games, nothing. Nothing. And. He's, he's better than that. So I don't know, may, maybe he needs some spiritual guidance and an advisor that can, you know, bring him into it. Biden. Yeah. We need 

[00:31:46] Mat Germain: that locker from, what's the guy from Major league? Oh yeah. You know, he need the little incense, Jobo, 

[00:31:52] Mark Corbett: Mr.

[00:31:53] Mark Corbett: Jobo or whatever it is. 

[00:31:55] Mat Germain: Oh. 

[00:31:58] Mark Corbett: Have to give an offering of A little, little whiskey, uh, sniffer there or whatever. Yeah. 

[00:32:04] Mat Germain: We need, we need to get a Japanese player in there to shake him up and get him out of his routine. 

[00:32:09] Mark Corbett: That's, that would do it. Geez. Well, I wish, yeah, I, I don't want the, I don't want us to go down the drain about us saying great things about the Sox, Red Sox, and, uh.

[00:32:24] Mark Corbett: Man, but I was A little surprised. 

[00:32:26] Mat Germain: So what, what about the extensions that have been pouring out of teams recently? The DBAs just, uh, extended Catel Marte, uh, Christian Campbell was, was, uh, extended for the Red Sox. There's a whole bunch of extensions being thrown around. Um, I think a lot of them are surprising now.

[00:32:42] Mat Germain: The one that didn't surprise was Garrett Crochet. I think the Red Sox had to do that six years, 170 million. I think that made a lot of sense on both sides. It minimizes risk for the Red Sox, but it still gives them value for everything that they gave up to get him. And it gives them that frontline starter that they can bank on and kind of build around hopefully.

[00:33:04] Mat Germain: And I think there's a better chance they'll get full value out of him than the Yankees. Were going to get out of Gerritt Cole as an example, because Garrett Crochet will be done his deal when he is 32. And the interesting part is when you look at the, the free agents coming around next year, it sets a precedent that they can use when they're looking for their deals.

[00:33:25] Mat Germain: So Dylan Cease, Michael King, Faber Valdez, all those guys can now use that as a measuring stick and say, this is our baseline. And , now all of a sudden, everybody, all the other teams are able to price them out. What I think you're gonna see is a lot of them sign extensions with those players.

[00:33:41] Mat Germain: So whether you're the Padres or you're, you know, uh, the Astros, they'll probably start locking up some of those guys with similar aveRays annual values as what Garrett Crochet just signed for. 

[00:33:53] Josh Weaver: I think it makes good baseball sense, and I think it's good for the fans too, you know, especially for some of these smaller Market teams.

[00:34:00] Josh Weaver: I mean, I know a lot of times we're talking about the big Market teams, but then they'll just do these huge contracts whenever they want to anyway. But I think for a small Market teams, it's, it's really, and even mid- Market, it's pretty good. I mean, it's good for the fans and that's, that's what it's supposed to be about and, and the final analysis.

[00:34:16] Josh Weaver: But it's good for the players too, that way they know, okay, you know, I can kind of relax, not too much, but A little bit, and kind of, you know, absorb the culture and learn where they're at. 

[00:34:27] Mat Germain: I agree. And I think when you look at a team like the D-Backs in particular, right? They just made that, that huge signing with Corbin Burnes, they locked up Corbin Carroll, you know, and now they have Cattel Marte signed up.

[00:34:38] Mat Germain: So now you've got a core. And so when you're looking out and you're trying to bring in free agents and round out your team with other pieces, it's easier to attract them. It's exactly what the Blue Jays should have done a long time ago. And still, Vladimer Guerrero Jr is not signed. 

[00:34:55] Mark Corbett: What? Geez, that should just be embarrassing on, on the on side of the Blue.

[00:35:01] Mark Corbett: Jays not getting that done. And I think that has to put A little bit of a crimp and about how fans feel about the front office, if not about the team, if you're a Blue Jays fan. So I can't believe still that they haven't gotten that figured out, Mat . 

[00:35:16] Mat Germain: I know where they sent that money though, 'cause they, they just spent $11 billion on, on the rights for hockey for the next decade.

[00:35:24] Mat Germain: So, uh, they, you know, that money was well used. Uh, but it's double what they paid the last time for the NHL coveRays in Canada. So, uh, it, you know, it's interesting when you follow the breadcrumbs, I think the Red Sox caught a lot of flack because of Liverpool. Yeah. And, and their ownership, you know, spending a lot of money on that team.

[00:35:43] Mat Germain: Uh, you never know where the dollars are, are, are spreading out to over time. So, uh, I'd love to follow all the bread crumbs. That's why I find the bRayss A little interesting. 'cause they're, you know, their books are A little bit more wide open than everybody else. So, um. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm happy the extensions are coming out.

[00:36:02] Mat Germain: I still think there's more to come. Um, it'll be interesting to see what the end product is in terms of how many, um, deferrals there are, how many options? I think there's more gimmicks coming out now in terms of performance incentives. Like the, the one for, , Christian Campbell, I think he, he, everybody's saying it's like a Ronald Deya type deal because it's so cheap.

[00:36:24] Mat Germain: I think it's 60 million that he paid for, uh, he signed for, for eight years. But there's incentives that can take that up, another 30 million. So it's not like it's the top, it's just, it, it has risk involved for him if he doesn't perform. But if he gets certain things, um, uh, that he achieves and I think they're fairly simple, like they're not over the top.

[00:36:47] Mat Germain: Um, he, you know, he could make out like a bandit in the end. I. Still gives them the control that they're looking for. I, I don't know. I, I think you're right, Josh, in that this is the way that that small Market teams compete, right? It, it's locking them up early enough that you're getting some sort of value, you're banking on them performing and, and there's some comfort level in some long-term benefits to them actually knowing where they're going to be.

[00:37:15] Mat Germain: Yeah. And to be honest, it makes them more tradable. So at any point in time, if you need to trade them, they have more value because now the team knows what they're getting and for how long the rays have done this over and over again. Just because the rays extend a player, it doesn't mean they're keeping 'em forever.

[00:37:31] Mat Germain: If anything, it means that they're going to deal 'em down the road. 

[00:37:35] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, and we've got a guy we, we feel like we could trust. I mean, when you look at Eric Neander, you say, this guy's made great decisions. And I've said it before on the show, years ago, one of the first things I remember hearing Neander doing was.

[00:37:52] Mark Corbett: I'm sorry. Longoria is going where? You know, ev Evan Longoria is going where? Well, I'll never go to a Rays game again. I was hearing more and more people telling me that I'll never go to another Rays game, you know? But, uh, guess what? He made some great decisions and it's still paying off the things that he's doing.

[00:38:07] Mark Corbett: So, 

[00:38:08] Mat Germain: right before the 10 and five rights kicked in right before, like I'm talking days before it kicked in, 

[00:38:16] Mark Corbett: amazing. 

[00:38:17] Mat Germain: No. Yeah. 

[00:38:18] Josh Weaver: Mat . I think you're right about, you know, these, these small Market teams and you know, good for the Diamondbacks.

[00:38:26] Josh Weaver: I think it's a good decision, you know, because they could have just sat back and it was kind of, we were talking about Longoria. It's kind of cool that he went and finished up well, you know, with the Diamondbacks. Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. 

[00:38:39] Mat Germain: I agree. I think, you know, there's, there's worse ways for him to have gone out for sure.

[00:38:45] Mat Germain: And, and I'm glad that he came back to the Tampa area and actually, you know, spoke highly of the organization in the end. Like he wasn't, he's not holding, you know, any bitter attitude whatsoever for the franchise. I told Mark this off season when we started talking about what this season might look like.

[00:39:03] Mat Germain: I was like, personally I would love to see KK teaching the center fielders how to play. And I would love to see Evan Longoria become the bench manager for Kevin Cash. Like those are things that I think would help the the team out, because I think Kevin Cash gets kind of, um. Stuck in his ways sometimes and, and listens A little bit too much to the data.

[00:39:23] Mat Germain: And I think Evan would be the sounding board that he could kind of use. Uh, I don't know what kind of work he's looking for in this off season. He's probably trying to keep it pretty quiet, but I, you know, when they do end up building a new stadium, I still think that, you know, if they're gonna build any statues, like what they have outside of Camden, the first ones they're putting up are Evan and kk.

[00:39:44] Mat Germain: I think, um, 

[00:39:46] Josh Weaver: well, you know, they already got Evan. 

[00:39:48] Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:39:49] Josh Weaver: And they got aki, you know, so to your point, I mean, I think the rays understand what Evan Longoria meant to the franchise, and I think. On Evan's part, I think he wants back into the Rays bad because you know, you've seen him around the stadium more, you know, you've seen him around Tampa and St.

[00:40:07] Josh Weaver: Pete more. I mean, he's becoming very, very visible. And while he said, does he wanna be a coach? Does you know, what does, what does he want to do? I'm sure that one of the things he wants to be is in the Rays Hall of Fame and when that's gonna happen. You know, 

[00:40:21] Mat Germain: I have an idea, Mark. I know how 

[00:40:23] Mat Germain: we lay claim to Steinbrenner Field.

[00:40:27] Mat Germain: We retire Evan Longoria's number and we put it in the outfield.

[00:40:32] Mat Germain: What? They cannot take it back after that. That's our No, no. They can't take the Steinbrenner field back after that. There's a number three out there, and it's not Babe Ruth, it's Evan Longoria, 

[00:40:46] Josh Weaver: but Mat , they'll just stripe it and say it's babes. 

[00:40:48] Josh Weaver: Ah, no. Well, which, yeah, I mean, it's like putting a 

[00:40:52] Josh Weaver: flag on the freaking moon, you know?

[00:40:54] Josh Weaver: And. We'll, we'll make sure of that. That's, geez, I love that. I love that. 

[00:40:59] Josh Weaver: That's good though, Mat . That's good. 

[00:41:02] Mat Germain: Yeah, we, we gotta make it happen. I'm, I'm calling Stu writing AL etter. I don't know, 

[00:41:09] Mark Corbett: you know, I just gotta break off for a second. But the thing of is you were, I'm thinking about that, uh, Steinbrenner's, and it's fun watching home runs now.

[00:41:18] Mark Corbett: I mean, because we have fireworks going off of the sky and we don't have to worry about the roof being set on fire. 

[00:41:25] Mat Germain: But did you, it's funny that you talk about that though, because it, it is more of an event now, right? Because of that. Yes. The kids will love it. The kids might stick around to the end of the game because they know the fireworks are coming and watching it on tv.

[00:41:38] Mat Germain: I think the white uniforms look brighter. I don't know what the, the grit and glow look like in that stadium eventually, but if you're using purple lighting, if you have stuff going on, like there's a whole bunch of ambiance things you can do in that stadium that'll be a lot different than the trop.

[00:41:55] Mat Germain: There's not the, the lighting on the roof, but I think it's, to me, it's something pure about watching baseball with an open air stadium, especially at night when it's nice and cool, um, or cooler, I guess in some cases not exactly cool. But, uh, I, I think I. The, like I said, the Tampa fans are, are getting a first taste of that at the major league level right now.

[00:42:22] Mat Germain: And I think the more and more and more they do, they will love it. You're talking September, are you kidding me? September night. Cool Breeze watching baseball. No open air, no issues. Like I think that's gonna be a golden opportunity for fans to get out there and enjoy it. And, uh, I hope that they're each taking a shot at it just to see what it's like and whether or not it's way different than what they had at the Trop.

[00:42:48] Mark Corbett: It is going to be and is a different experience. And there's so many things like that, that they'll, they'll make it more lively. You know? And one of the things too is I'm trying to, to think about the, the, uh, the managers, I'm bringing this up.

[00:43:04] Mark Corbett: It's kind of a, a segue to one of the reasons Josh has joined us today. And that is looking across the history of the Tampa Bay Rays managers and Devil Rays, and there's five men who have held that position in cash. Now we, but I'm gonnAL et Josh talk to this. 'cause you got dis a certain, uh, special display, I believe at the Tampa Baseball Museum.

[00:43:27] Josh Weaver: Yeah. Mark, one thing we're doing this month is we're gonna, well maybe we'll see how long it, we keep it up, but we're honoring the five managers. You know, Larry, Al, you know, it's, I mean, and, and Lou, you know, they, they were the, they, they started during the lean years, you know, and then of course when Joe came in and now Kevin.

[00:43:46] Josh Weaver: Um, but yeah, we're honoring all five of them by a temporary display at the Tampa Baseball Museum. So, and I guess later, whenever you want to Mark, we'll talk about the event. I guess we can do that later on. 

[00:43:59] Mark Corbett: I'd like, let's dig just A little bit into each one of those managers. Okay. So let's start with the first guy, Larry Rothschild.

[00:44:05] Mark Corbett: And a lot of these guys had at least some sort of MLB career as a player, some more extensive than others, but, um, tell us about, A little bit about Larry and, and what he did with the Rays. 

[00:44:18] Josh Weaver: You know, the interesting thing that people forget about Larry, , and I guess it's because it was with the Rays and like I said, it was during the lean years when they started, but you know, it's, you, you, not many people in baseball history get to be the first manager of a franchise.

[00:44:34] Josh Weaver: And I think that, you know, that's always gonna be Larry's place in baseball history. Not just Rays history, but you know, it's very, that's a very select within the select group of managers ever. Then you get, and then you micromanage that group. And with Larry, you know, like he said, with his playing career, he only played for a couple years for the Tigers 81 and 82.

[00:44:55] Josh Weaver: So, you know, and then, then he became, you know, obviously his manager career was from 98 to 2001. And, you know, with, with it being early in the Rays history, and we all know how kind of that went for, for Larry and then later for Lou for how, and then Lou. But I mean, you look at what he did as a pitching coach, um, you know, he does have two World Series rings.

[00:45:20] Josh Weaver: So I think that, you know, at the 1990 World Series, which is always interesting because obviously he was the pitching coach when Lou Pinella was the manager. So it's kind of a neat connection between those two guys. And then in the 97 World Series, you know, under Jim Leland, he was a pitching coach and he spent all those years with the, with the Yankees as a pitching coach.

[00:45:40] Josh Weaver: So I think, certainly he has his place in baseball history as the first Rays manager, but obviously, there's no slouching there with two World Series rings as a, as a pitching coach, either 

[00:45:52] Mark Corbett: coach, they were, they had, uh, really hard times the first few years with the Rays and look at here at Larry's record, let's see, Hmm, uh, .411, that was the win loss percentage.

[00:46:04] Mark Corbett: So 205 game, 205 wins to 294 losses. And at one point the Rays ownership said, Hmm, no more. So what are we gonna do? Well, they look at the guy was, was he the bench coach at that time? Hal McRae? 

[00:46:21] Josh Weaver: Yeah, I think he was the, yeah, he came in and, and you know how at the 2000, you know, that started that 2001 series, then how, obviously assumed the role after the after fire.

[00:46:31] Josh Weaver: And Larry, and you know, he's talking about a player that had a good playing career. You know, he did, you know, with Kansas City, I mean, he started out with Cincinnati and then, you know, he was a Raysd manager, but before that he was Kansas City Royals manager. You know, people may forget that from 91 to 94 that Hal was with the, you know, with, and that's a team you kind of.

[00:46:50] Josh Weaver: Was best known for as a player as well. , he's in the Kansas City Royals Hall of Fame, you know, so, and he was on those teams where, you know, and actually one year, you know, kind of leads into Lou. Then in 1973 season they actually were at Kansas City together, and then of course later, after Lou went over to the Yankees, then of course you had how, and the, and, you know, uh, people forget the, you know, the bitter rivalry between the royals and the Yankees as far as, as far as the teams go back in the day.

[00:47:20] Josh Weaver: I mean, it was, it was brawls literally in, you know, figuratively between those two. So, yeah, but Hal's career? , he had an extensive career , as a player, and, and , you don't get into a, an organization's hall of fame and not be a good player. Um, but you know, as a manager, you know, when he started out with the Kansas City and then on over to us, and then, , he was only there, , for a short period.

[00:47:43] Josh Weaver: Before, before Lou came in. 

[00:47:45] Mark Corbett: Yeah, because one thing, go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, go ahead, Mark. No, I was gonna say he had, he had to come in behind Larry and it was like, oh, here you are. Let now you go ahead and run this. And it wasn't really even like he had a choice. Obviously he did, but I mean, it suddenly, here is this piece of clay that's misshapen and I'm, I'm not giving you good raw materials to work with, but I expect you to do something with it now.

[00:48:09] Mark Corbett: Right in the middle of it's, you know, trying to build a, some kind of sculpture with it. 

[00:48:15] Josh Weaver: No, you're exactly right. And, and even when, , then after how, then of course Lou Pinella comes in and Lou wanted to be there. , he was going home and, and you know, I think that, you know, with, with things you hear from Lou and you know, years later that I.

[00:48:32] Josh Weaver: Even closer to when he was managing that, you know, that I think we were talking earlier about, you know, small Market teams and what they're willing to pay. I think that, , Lou was hoping for a bigger payroll for his players and that never really materialized. So I think for Lou, I mean, you know, and people forget, he wanted to come home to Tampa and manage his hometown, Tampa Bay Rays.

[00:48:53] Mat Germain: Yeah, I think the transition, uh, between managers is interesting. In this case, when you start looking at those three, so you have Larry Rothschild, so they wanted to get the pitching stabilized. They wanted that to be the focus because they had brought in some experience bats, right? Uh, they had Wade Boggs.

[00:49:12] Mat Germain: They had Jose Canseco. They knew that the lineup could take care of itself and, and score some runs, right? They didn't know how many, but it, it ended up being A little underwhelming because there was a lot of issues, but the pitching was what they were focusing on. So they got the manager that could help out with that in, in Larry Rothchild.

[00:49:29] Mat Germain: Then they decided, well, this isn't working. Okay, we're gonna try something new. And then, like you said, they brought in the guy that's got over 2000 hits in Major League baseball, and they were hoping that that would rub off on a lot of the teams and how it was. Actually constructed when they were putting the lineups together and all that kind of stuff.

[00:49:45] Mat Germain: But I don't think either Larry or Hal were ready for all of this stuff going on and, and, and were equipped to draw the most out of their players like Lou was. Mm-hmm. Lou was a, was basically throwing a grenade into the, onto the field, into the Trop and saying, okay, he's gonna sort them out and he's gonna start to build a character of a team.

[00:50:09] Mat Germain: And so a lot of people always focus in on Joe Maddon and him being the change in the Rays and, and how they approach everything. I think it's started before that with Lou in, in giving the team a structure and a sort of respectful way of, of behaving and acting and being a team and believing in. Your ability to perform and compete against a lot of these teams that, you know, for AL ong time, you're, so, I don't wanna say you're looking up at them, but they have a allure that you haven't established yet in your town.

[00:50:43] Josh Weaver: Oh man. I think you're a hundred percent right. I think that Lou brought in, you know, that pedigree, 'cause Lou, whether it was a bow he was playing, whether he was coaching for that little bit he coached with the Yankees or whether he was managing, he was gonna go after you. And I think that, like you said, you know, that was, you know, it's an interesting point that I hadn't really thought too much of as far as him starting to change the culture.

[00:51:08] Josh Weaver: Saying, okay, this is, we're not gonnAL et these teams we're, we're just gonna try not to let these teams beat up on us. That we're here to win. I don't care what any, what happened before that. I have a World Series ring. I have as a manager. I have two with the Yankees as a player.

[00:51:24] Josh Weaver: You know, he, he already came in and he had, he was already two time manager of the year. Think, like you said, I think with Lou, the culture was gonna change. 

[00:51:33] Mark Corbett: Mm-hmm. But then you've got Joe Maddon and then things changed again. Like you said, uh, Mat Lou threw the grenade in there, and now maybe, maybe at that point Joe Maddon has something to work with.

[00:51:52] Mark Corbett: Maybe, maybe the floor's torn up enough that they'll bring in some carpenters and some people to let him build something. And I know hearing a conversation with Lou Pinella, he did, he said, he said. Once they didn't give him the money to get the team that he needed. And I don't know how they did so much with Joe, but Joe definitely built on everything else Lou and the others had put together.

[00:52:16] Mark Corbett: But 

[00:52:17] Josh Weaver: I think Mark, part of it is the fact that, you know, like when people come in the museum, , people from around the country, they're like, well, what's the deal? , the devil Rays and now they're the Rays. What happened? And the Joe was right in line with all of that happening.

[00:52:33] Josh Weaver: You know, you have the, you know, you have the ownership change, you know, and I'll tell my corny joke that I tell that my daughter says I should not tell. Um, it's really, but it's true. You know? 'cause you know, you spent all Joe, Maddon spent all those years with the Angels organization, you know, so you have a new ownership group come in, they have an exorcism.

[00:52:53] Josh Weaver: They hire the angel. They make it to the World Series. And I understand it wasn't that simple, but , really the culture, I mean, you have to give props to a certain degree as far as the, the ownership group, , and the other thing, as far as, , natural progression in baseball, you lose that much.

[00:53:09] Josh Weaver: You're gonna get number one draft picks.

[00:53:13] Mat Germain: I, I, I think the, the other key ingredient here, and we all know that, you know, the managers get a lot of the blame and a lot of the glo uh, glory. Uh, but Andrew Friedman came in right around the same time as Joe Maddon. And so there was a lot of benefit in the change of how, the rays, , drew talents to the organization where they lifted every rock from that point on, they went and, and, and actually developed their own core.

[00:53:41] Mat Germain: And yes, they got a lot of high draft picks, but to be quite honest, Andrew Freeman's drafts were horrific, like terrible. I mean, some of the worst in Major League baseball, based on what he had in terms of draft positions, that is not where they drew their value from. Yeah. Where they drew their value from was how they cherished every single asset.

[00:54:00] Mat Germain: If they were dropping a guy on waivers, if they were doing this, if they were able to accumulate more draft picks because they were, uh, signing guys, Alex Anthopoulos did the same thing. So both those teams are culprits. They changed the rules over and over and over again because the Jays and the, the rays ended up abusing the, the system so much that they had no choice.

[00:54:19] Mat Germain: So. All I mean to say is that that Joe Maddon had more, uh, creative front office to help him out, to get him those players without adding to the budget that, like Lou was approaching it. I think Lou's frustration is valid, but he could have gotten it in other ways that the front office had the creativity while he was there to, to help him out.

[00:54:40] Mark Corbett: Well, speaking of Joe Maddon's creativity, one of the reasons I asked Josh on the show today was for a special event that he's cooked up together. It's gonna happen up at the Tampa Baseball Museum. Make sure I get the right month and date here, Monday, April 21st, and that is going to be at the Tampa Baseball Museum in Ybor.

[00:55:02] Mark Corbett: And if you could tell us A little bit about that, Josh, what's going on, buddy? Yeah, we're pretty excited 

[00:55:08] Josh Weaver: about this. Um, we had, well, JC Newman's put on a, an event recently where they unveiled 

[00:55:15] Mark Corbett: That is a Cigar company right. 

[00:55:17] Josh Weaver: Yes. Yeah, it's the last major cigar factory in Tampa, and they, to honor the Tampa Smokers, they came out with a Tampa Smokers cigar, and they were kind enough to do the unveil at the museum.

[00:55:34] Josh Weaver: So they filled the museum, and fortunately we kept most of the smoke out of the building. We kept the people in and the smoke out as best we could. Um, but, you know, Joe Maddon was there, and Larry, Larry was there. So it was pretty unique to have two of our five managers at, at one engagement together. So, what we do, you know, I, I talked with Rick Vaughn, who is a great friend of our, our museum and a great.

[00:56:02] Josh Weaver: Baseball guy altogether and a great person. , and he's written a, you know, a couple books on St. Pete and Tampa Spring training and we've had him out to, to the, to the museum to do book signings. So I said to him why I called him up one day. I said, what do you think about the idea of having you come out and Joe come out and do a dual book signing?

[00:56:25] Josh Weaver: So, you know, Rick Rick's like, yeah, definitely. He says, let me get in touch with Joe. And Joe was up for it. Um, so that's kind of how this kind of the, you know, kind of came about. So, you know, we're gonna do this on the 21st. It's gonna be from six o'clock to 8:00 PM Um, we're gonna have AL imited number of people, , that way, you know, you can have some, some face time with Joe.

[00:56:50] Josh Weaver: And you can meet Rick. If those that don't know Rick, he's got, you know, some definite books that people need to read. He's, he's becoming a great baseball historian. So, and how they, their connection is that when Rick was, you know, for all five, and I didn't realize this until I was recently talking to Rick, that he was in the public relations department at, with the Rays for at least parts of all five of the managers.

[00:57:18] Josh Weaver: And I didn't realize it spread into Kevin Cash's tenure there as well. So, you know, and he and and Joe are very close. So I guess, you know, it didn't take much and Joe seemed to really enjoy the museum. Um, it was great that you were there that night too, Mark. I mean, you kind of witnessed this too to, and Larry had a good, , Larry had a great time as well.

[00:57:38] Josh Weaver: So we've invited Larry. So Larry is gonna be one of our special guests. So at this point, we're gonna have the book signing , with Rick and with Joe, and we're gonna have Larry there, which is, kind of a nice bonus. , but yeah, that's, that's kind of the event in a nutshell. I. 

[00:57:55] Mark Corbett: Okay, lemme, lemme give this.

[00:57:56] Mark Corbett: You have Joe Maddon and was he at least three times manager of the year? Yep. And he's also World Series winner, man winning manager, you know, and did great things with the, the rays. We, we, we, we hated to see him go and win a World Series with the Cubbies, but hey, uh, we've got him, he got, he has his book, the book of Joe, I believe and Correct Don't Suck as I think it's subtitle, something like that.

[00:58:23] Mark Corbett: , so we've got him there, you and you've got Rick, Rick Vaughn, who not only did Marketing from the Rays from day one and, you know, through part of Cash's tenure as well, but was also there at the beginning of Camden Yards with the Orioles and had a lot to do with that as well. So he's there with his book.

[00:58:40] Mark Corbett: So, uh, I've got two books I've gotta get, they have those guys sign 'em for me. You're gonna have food, you're gonna have beverages and admission. To the museum to see all the artifacts from players from this area. Hmm. That seems like a pretty good deal. Plus I, I'll use the word that the rays used when I talk about being at George Steinbrenner Field.

[00:58:59] Mark Corbett: It is in a intimate, really venue, if you will. 

[00:59:05] Josh Weaver: Yeah. And, and you know, you know, don't forget too, Mark, and I know you know this as well as all everybody that, and we're doing this, we're gonna have two managers there, and we're doing at Al Lopez's house, you know, who was Hall of Fame manager. So, you know, it's kind of, I, I love the managers in baseball.

[00:59:24] Josh Weaver: I think some of the best characters 

[00:59:26] Mat Germain: mm-hmm. 

[00:59:27] Josh Weaver: That have ever been on a baseball diamond are managers. Whether it be, I mean, going way back, I mean, even more recently. I say it that like 50 years ago. But Sparky Anderson, of course you have Casey Stengel, you have Yogi, , the, the Supreme, I guess, mastermind of, and that's one thing, just to interrupt myself real quick, is when I, when Joe was there and I said, Joe, I, I want, I mean this as a compliment.

[00:59:51] Josh Weaver: And I said, I can I call you, you know, the mad scientist of baseball and Joe took it for exactly the way we as baseball fans need it to be. And he's like, no. He's like, he's like, I gotcha. So, the fact that, it's so, it's kind of a, a manager's showcase, if you will. And one thing, just real quick, we were talking when, during the last event that, you know, I was talking with both Joe and Larry about Lou Pinella, and it, it's, it's one of the things that, separately, they both said that I.

[01:00:26] Josh Weaver: Lou should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame. 

[01:00:28] Mark Corbett: Amen. You know, 

[01:00:29] Josh Weaver: and it was kind of re Markable that you have these two guys and you know, obviously they both spent a lot of time in baseball, you know, and, and they both have World Series rings in different capacities. But, it was pretty impressive to see them both say separately yet that Lou should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[01:00:47] Josh Weaver: Now, just a quick story about if I can Mark about Sure. Talking to Larry about this. 'cause you know, sometimes I, I have to, step back and be like, well, I need to rephrase this because I was talking with Larry and, , I told him, I said, with this last round where Lou was up for the baseball Hall of fame again, and the voting, that he missed it by one vote.

[01:01:07] Josh Weaver: And that, Jim Leland he was inducted into Baseball Hall of Fame. And I said, , you look at their stats. I mean, you have. Leland with a 5 0 6 winning PERCENTING percentage, and he had Piniella with a five 17 winning percentage. Both of them have one World Series ring, as far as managers and, on, on his first attempt, Leland gets in as, as far as the Eras committee.

[01:01:32] Josh Weaver: And , Lou, the last two times has missed it by one vote. Um, and I, and so I said that to Larry, he's like, yo, well keep in mind that, that I was, the pitching coach on the 1990 World Series team with Lou. And then he reminded me, , I was also on Jim Leland's World Series winning team in 1997.

[01:01:53] Josh Weaver: So I paused and I said, well. Let me re, let me restart Larry. He says, I said to him, I said, I don't, I don't want to, you know, I'm not throwing shade on on Jim. I said, I'm not saying that one shouldn't be. And, and the other should. I said, I think they should both be in the Baseball Hall of fame. And Larry's like, no.

[01:02:10] Josh Weaver: He's like, I knew what you meant. Um, but I wanted to make sure I clarified that. And, you know, for us at this moment too, I certainly think Jim Leland, his baseball pedigree is, it's there. 

[01:02:20] Mat Germain: Yeah. You know, 

[01:02:20] Josh Weaver: he's Hall of Famer and, but I think so is Lou. And , the fact that, hopefully one day we'll see Lou Piniella in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[01:02:28] Josh Weaver: But you know, another thing that when we're talking with, with, um, Joe Maddon, it was fascinating. I told Joe, I said, , we're talking about Al Lopez. And I said, with Al I said, he is in the, in the, in the Baseball Hall of Fame and he doesn't have any World Series ranks. Joe's like, I didn't realize that.

[01:02:47] Josh Weaver: It's interesting how baseball works, but obviously you look at Al Lopez with his winning percentage and having for a complete season, never having a losing season. So, like Mat and I were talking about earlier, and you, you too, Mark as far as breaking down people that should be or should not be in the baseball Hall of fame.

[01:03:03] Josh Weaver: But, you know, it'd be good to get Lou in there and, and it was kind of interesting, I think that, you know, you get, you get these, these former managers ag that would agree with that. 

[01:03:13] Mark Corbett: Well, I'm glad you shared that with us. 'cause Mat knows, I think sometimes the Hall of fame, the whole voting thing's, a bunch of hooey, uh, veterans I feel A little better about.

[01:03:23] Mark Corbett: Yeah. But I know I've said other things, Mat , A little stronger than that. 

[01:03:27] Mat Germain: I love that hooey. Who says hooey? 

[01:03:31] Mark Corbett: I'm trying to, to curb my, my words these days. I have a young granddaughter who I'm gonna be seeing soon, so I gotta start using my better language or at least softer language. 

[01:03:42] Josh Weaver: I like it. But you know, we were talking about the managers and of course the current manager, Kevin Cash.

[01:03:49] Josh Weaver: I mean, it, it's interesting that as far as you look at, you know, Kevin and Joe as far as their manager of the, of the years, you know, Kevin's already got two managers of the years in 2020 and 2021 and, you know, so, and he's still going. And it's interesting that he's quietly become the Ray's tenure most tenured manager.

[01:04:12] Josh Weaver: And he's also become the longest stint with any current manager and their, and the respective teams, which is pretty, pretty impressive for Kevin. And, \ he's still young. I mean, we have no idea what the future's gonna be like for Kevin. What do you think, Mat ? 

[01:04:29] Mat Germain: Well, he's 47 years old. He's signed until 2030.

[01:04:33] Mat Germain: So he's here until I say here he's in Tampa or with the Rays. We, we, sorry, let me rephrase that. We think he will be in Tampa with the, anyways, we don't know anything. All we know is he's tied to the franchise, um, until 2030. He's got over 820 wins already. Uh, he's got a five 40 win percentage. Uh, I mean, the stats are all there.

[01:04:59] Mat Germain: If Kevin Cash doesn't get in the Hall of Fame in the same year as, as Tito Francona, uh, I think we're losing out on something special because speeches from those two back to back would be elite. Oh, I love that. 

[01:05:12] Mark Corbett: I would love that, man. That would so be so cool, Mat . 

[01:05:16] Mat Germain: Wow. 

[01:05:17] Mark Corbett: Wow. And you know, you know what, 

[01:05:18] Josh Weaver: Mark, one thing I, I have to admit that I, I had forgotten is that Kevin was Ray for a minute.

[01:05:25] Josh Weaver: You know, when Lou was there and, and I, I, I, I have to admit, I honestly forgot that, , so it's kind of neat how these guys are, are in some ways tied together, with Kevin playing for a minute, for Lou. And then, you know, as far as we talked about Larry as a pitching coach under, under Lou, and then, you know, how and Lou at Kansas City together for that 73 season.

[01:05:46] Josh Weaver: And then of course, Hal starting the 2001 season, , as a coach for the Rays. And of course Larry, , being removed and then how taken over. So it's, it is interesting to see the, you know, how these guys kind of weaving and out of each other's histories. Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:01] Mark Corbett: Here's something to consider, Josh, Monday, April 21st, when this event's taking place from six to 8:00 PM The rays aren't playing that night.

[01:06:12] Mark Corbett: Wow. So maybe there's a certain fellow who went to Gaither High School, played catcher at FSU, also caught for the, uh, red Sox, and, uh, maybe we can find that guy. Maybe he could come. 

[01:06:26] Josh Weaver: Yeah, we'd be kind of cool if we could get Kevin there too. I mean, you know, I know he is A little busy this time of year, but 

[01:06:33] Mat Germain: you have to get 'em to write a book first.

[01:06:36] Mark Corbett: There you go. There you go. God knows. You'll be able to, 

[01:06:42] Mat Germain: you know. Well, nowadays you could just ask AI to write one for you and tell them what you want it to be about, how long you want it to be, whether or not it should be read to kids or not, and then you're good to go. 

[01:06:53] Mark Corbett: So I can say hooey for the kids' book.

[01:06:55] Mark Corbett: There you go. Gold. As long as we're talking about authors I didn't mention earlier. Uh, Mat , Josh is actually, he wrote a book and it's about, uh, kind of a child's book walking through Camden Yard. So, uh, with nice graphics and all that with it. So anyway, we're gonna, I know we need to wrap this up, but I wanna thank both of you guys.

[01:07:15] Mark Corbett: Josh, give us one more time. When's the event and where can I, where can I buy tickets? 

[01:07:20] Josh Weaver: It's, um, April 21st, and you can go to the website for TampaBaseballMuseum.org Events and you can check, you know, if there's a feed that takes you right there, um, you can actually purchase them at the museum. If, if people are in town and they're actually at the museum, they can purchase 'em directly from us at the museum.

[01:07:39] Josh Weaver: And it's gonna be from six to eight. Like I said, scheduled as far as one of our special guests is going to be, Larry is gonna be there. So it's gonna be kind of cool no Mat er what. You know, Joe's gonna be there and Larry confirmed that he's, he's gonna be there. , and then of course Rick Vaughn, his, , like you said, his, his time with the Orioles is fascinating to me.

[01:08:00] Josh Weaver: As I'm a baseball junk, you know, ballpark junk. I've been all 30 ballparks. 

[01:08:03] Mark Corbett: Well, you sound like you're gonna have some great guys there. Yep. There's gonna be hor d'oeuvres book signing, all that. So, Josh, I can't thank you enough for joining. Mat and I here today, man on Baseball Biz on Deck.

[01:08:13] Mark Corbett: It's always a pleasure chatting with you all the time, but thank you for being here with the audience as well. 

[01:08:19] Josh Weaver: Thanks for inviting me, Mark. And yeah. Yep. Hopefully everybody come on out on the 21st. 

[01:08:23] Mark Corbett: All righty, Mat , any other last words or, 

[01:08:27] Mat Germain: oh, the Durham Bulls won, 6 to 1 and, , Bobby Seymour hit a grand slam. So, , it was a fun time to see, , I was been watching the game,, the corner of my eye as, as we were finishing up, so.

[01:08:38] Mat Germain: Chandler Simpson hit a triple and stole another base. The bulls are a lot of fun to watch. It's just, it's, it's awesome. And last thing I'll say is the minor league season really kicks off on, uh, uh, over the weekend. So get out there and support the teams and, uh, get to know the lineups. 

[01:08:53] Mark Corbett: All righty. Thank you.

[01:08:55] Mark Corbett: Thank you both, gentlemen, and I look forward to talking with both y'all again real soon. 

[01:08:59] Mat Germain: All right. Have a good night, Mark. Take care. 

 Special Thanks to Josh Weaver, Curator of the Tampa Baseball Museum for sharing stories on the Tampa Bay Rays Managers exhibit and the special event with World Series winning manager Joe Maddon at the museum on April 21st.

Just a reminder, if you enjoyed this show, go ahead like and subscribe to BaseballBiz On Deck. Also you can find Mat at M-A-T-G-E-R-M-A-I-N dot B Sky social. That's Mat at M-A-T-G-E-R-M-A-I-N dot B, Sky social or Mark at  Baseball Biz on Deck dot B Sky Social. You may also find Baseball Biz on Deck, at iHeart Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, and at baseball biz on deck dot com

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Tags:
 Tampa Bay Rays, RaysUp, Opening Day, George Steinbrenner Field, Kiermaier, Evan Longoria, Larry Rothschild, Hal McCrae, Joe Maddon, Lou Piniella, Kevin Cash, Yankees, Tampa Baseball Museum, Red Sox, White Sox, Braves