Sports Psychology, Pitchers & Batters - Gettin' Gritty with Dr. J

Gettin’ Gritty with Dr. J., Julie Wiernik on BaseballBiz On Deck

Mark: [00:00:00] 

Welcome to BaseballBizOnDeck. I'm Mark Corbett your host. And with me today I have Dr. Julie Wiernik, otherwise known as Dr. J. Julie has been tied into the business for some time as an athlete and then 20 years as a clinical psychologist in sports. And I'm sure she has a lifetime of stories to tell. Plus being a parent. So you put all those together and there's a lot of life experience.

So yes. Julie, welcome to the show. How you doing today? , 

Dr. J: I'm great. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to talk baseball and sports and mental health.

Mark: I'm glad to have you here. And you know, I, I loved, I got to meet you at the pod fest and then of course, listening to your own podcast with getting gritty with Dr. J, which . . I, I love, I mean, you cover a lot of different topics. You have different guests and whether it be some player who's been the past are one of them, like on recently you had [00:01:00] but about bad coaching. Mm. . I think as a parent, as a fan and myself I, I've always been amazed about what coaches can do.

Mark: I look back to years ago when I was a youngster and I watched the University of Louisville basketball team and I heard that they brought on this guy, this, this psychologist guy who helped with their mental health and suddenly saw a certain positivity of these players being able to hit more free throws, and I said, somebody's doing something. I figured it must have been some kind of magic, but we're talking 40 years ago, so forgive me. . . I had no understanding. 

Dr. J: Yeah, we are magical. A sports psychologist is magical 

Mark: You must be, to see the turnaround that you guys are able to deliver with the work that you do is, is amazing to me.

I mean, you're able to listen here and give guidance. That's proven. 

Well, while we're talking baseball, I know, what was it one of your one of the folks you worked [00:02:00] with, was it Eric Homa? He posted something the other day about having a challenge. , right. He, he had a plan to face it and it sounded like that was something that maybe you had worked with him on.. 

Dr. J:  Mm-hmm.  Well, I mean, I think in with my athletes you know, even my collegiate athletes, I work with a lot of col, you know, college cuz in San Antonio we have a lot of diverse universities here and I work a lot of pitchers. Pitchers and hitters are my special. You know, it's almost like the quarterback and the kicker, you know?

And you know, it's, if you don't, if you're not hitting, you're not gonna win. And if you're not pitching well, you're not gonna win. But it's so interesting that even though a lot of pitchers, even at the division one level, they don't even have like really solid routines. They don't really know what to do prior to the pitch.

They don't really what, know what to say to themselves. They don't have a, a routine after a pitch. . And even in the warmup, like I said, oh my gosh. Like the, the key to consistent success is, is having a, doing the same thing all the time. And what's kind of funny, and I'll bring this up, is I had one picture and he goes to play, I think it's Ole Miss or school in Mississippi [00:03:00] and he's in a bullpen and he is warming up and about an, an 80 year old man comes up to the bullpen, of course the opposing team's fans, and start talking about his mother. and just like ripping him, I mean, this is a warmup. This is a 20 year old, so you know, boy pitching and these fans are totally just ripping this guy apart. And this is the common theme. So there's a lot of problems, number one. Number one, I think our fans are taking a little too serious. But, and, you know, and, and going after.

Poor, innocent kid. That's a problem in of itself. Like to be able to, to, to do that. Like get a life, okay, have fun. Support your team to both do we need, really need to bully these poor guys who are just trying to play baseball. And the second is these guys have to know how to handle it. , you know, and you have to be able to handle distractions.

And that's not easy because you're there, you're warming up, and then you have that, so you do have to block out a lot in order to pitch well, you know, there are a lot [00:04:00] of distractions and by having like a very specific routine and and really locking in is really important. And so , as a sports psychologist, he had no idea.

Number one, I think people don't know what to expect when they walk in. They, they like, who, who is this person and what can they offer me? So I think they have no clue sometimes all the tools that we have. Second I played high level, so I think, you know, they, they get it really fast. But they have so much to learn and even the professional athletes.

Even for hitting, I, you know, you know, in the books I recommend, like, I, I recommend all my athletes do some reading because it can get a lot more detailed. In our sessions, I say, what is your favorite pitch to hit? And some of 'em don't even know, even at the higher level what their specific favorite pitches I say, oh inside.

So there's a lot to be learned and the details are everything in, in sports. And so the sports, we are able to really get into the nitty gritty of what are they thinking about? What are they feeling? Knowing themselves really well. So it's, it's pretty special in my work and I really enjoy it.[00:05:00] 

Mark: . Well, it's amazing to me when I'm, I'm looking at what you're doing, especially like when I think about pitchers and watching them on the mound. and you see a lot of 'em do have a routine. There's certain steps they take, there's a certain approach they take. You know how they position themselves even with their glove while they're standing on the rubber, long before they actually take that pitch.

And I think that a lot of times they must have to try to filter out all of that crowd noise, everything else surrounding them. and just what is that grip on their, you know, on that ball that they have on their hand, you know? Right. What is their relationship with that catcher and being able to get the signal and send it back and being just in that moment right, and not, and not overthinking, I mean, , right.

What, what kind of guidance can you give to someone when they've got all of those things swirling around in their head? ,

Dr. J: right? So I think the number one thing is that the more you the more anxious you are, and the more you think the more inward you are. And to be a great pitcher is pretty simple. It's trusting your pitch and [00:06:00] focusing on a target.

So, you know, I call it, you know, there's the, the four Fs that's really having having fun because I think number one, you know, when you're really enjoying pitching and you enjoying anything you know, it just takes some of the stress off and you're like, oh my God, bring it. You know? And you're embracing the challenge number two, really believing in your pitch.

And so you have to really, really at the warmup really get that confidence. But then again, your warmup doesn't, I always tell 'em, the athletes that your warmup doesn't have to mean. Because there are many times when , I was warming up, you know, I played middle infield in college and my warmups were kind of fair.

But warmups are really not adrenaline. It's not really the, the, a warmup is a warmup. So, number one, you, you definitely want to realize that just because your warmup in the bullpen doesn't mean your pitches are not gonna work. , so you really have to believe in, in your stuff. Number two, you, number three, you really have to focus really hard on your target.

And, you know, having some, just a couple of keyword words, maybe just a couple things that you think about versus having too many things and then really following through. So I [00:07:00] think it, I think if you keep the premise of. , you know, confidence, fun, focus and follow through. And then for that athlete it may just be one or two words, keywords, and that's the way to kind of just keeping things a little simple in their mind.

Mark: Simplicity seems to be the key then. And like you said, focus. So that, that is interesting. And, and I would, I would think that's, would be sometimes very difficult to get to. I know my, my own life, whatever I'm working with, staying focused is, is seems like a real challenge. . 

Dr. J: Sure. There's a lot of obstacles. For example, I had a pitcher division one pitcher.

He gets drafted to the majors you know, and he's in the minors. And when I was working him, he didn't really have any major injuries. But then all of a sudden, you're playing a million games, , oh my gosh, the seasons for college. Then, when you get drafted, it's literally weeks.

You have to go get your blood work done, your physical, and then, then you're playing single A you know, . And sometimes if they get an, arm injury, then I, the challenge then is, oh my [00:08:00] gosh, like I'm here, my velocity is 10 miles per hour down. And now they start panicking, so they feel there's a lot of pressure on them because they're not getting paid a whole lot, and then they like start freaking out.

So some of the agents are starting to come to me as well when they sign their baseball players, , they say, oh man, the mental's 80%, no, it's a hundred percent. because your brain is constantly there. Your mind, your feelings, your thoughts are constantly with you. So it's a hundred percent mental.

 If you ask a lot of athletes who don't make it, they don't say, it's usually technical. They'll say it's , the mental game. So , I feel like, you know, it should be that all baseball players have someone just like strength training and nutrition . You know, of course it gets to the point, well, who's paying for it?

But I feel like , , that's the issue that we find in sports psychology still is that we're very underutilized, even though it is, as you get older and your technique is there, obviously it's not as much technical when you're younger, you know, you're trying to throw the ball. [00:09:00] It becomes a little more technical.

But as you get older and more experienced, it does become more mental than even physical. 

Mark: Yeah. And I'm sure the level of confidence over time has to really, , kind of explode as far as what they're able to achieve. I mean, we look at some of these pitchers that are out there now, you know, deGrom, Verlander, et cetera, and these are seasoned players and and a lot of times these folks have gone through injuries.

Just like you were talking about Tommy John years ago. You said, oh, that's a career ender, you know, it's, But now I'm seeing play, I'm seeing pitchers who've had two Tommy Johns and who are still performing well out there, so. Right, right. I mean, he gets past a certain mindset, I guess, from, from what we've had in the past, and that's, that's quite the challenge.

Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm glad to hear that they're somewhat more embracing it, at least the agents you know of, of how cultivate a player with some guidance from a doctor like yourself. 

Dr. J: Yeah. I mean, that's why . People ask me, well, what made you do a podcast? And I said because me just helping us, the, the few [00:10:00] people, number one, it, there's a cost involved for my services, right.

But a podcast, I can reach the whole world. And, you know, and the other thing is I'm, I'm giving advice too, and tips that. , you know, people may not get necessarily in my office because, you know, let's say a minor league baseball player, they can't afford it. You know, they're getting paid very mini, minimal.

I think a podcast like I can, you know, I'm probably gonna eventually do like the mental performance of pitchers, right? And I'll probably get high end pi, you know, pitchers coming in and really talking and being about their mental game. But number one, they can't be ashamed because they have to, they have to share their experience with others, you know, and that's the problem is, people will go on and talk about their physical rehab.

a lot of them are afraid , to say, oh yeah, I work with a sports psychologist. So I think that's the problem right there is, I've been in San Antonio for many years and not hardly any coaches seek me out. The players who find me are the players and the parents.

Mm. 

And this is the problem because, . Why aren't more coaches utilizing and saying, yeah, [00:11:00] like, let's bring on Dr. J. Or how about, how about, you know what, just interview me. Like interview and get to know me and know my knowledge before you hire and then say, wow, but that's, even in our country, there's a shortage because we don't, we're all wanting the help, but we don't get the opportunities to help..

Mark: Well, , that's gotta be a critical piece of the puzzle. And it, it does. It's a bit worrisome. It's like you have to realize these things are actually happening. I'm glad parents are there. I'm glad agents are there. Because if there's, I mean, there's a level of concern and it's still amazes me because as you're, you're saying the game is 100% metal and certainly for those pitchers, and that has to be acknowledged by managers.

You know, they're there and they dugout with these players. They're getting it and. As long as we're kind of, we were talking about pictures. I'd like to jump for a moment because you were saying something about hitters and, my gosh, the sensitivity to this. I mean, some of my favorite players, they're out there [00:12:00] and they're banging it and they're doing a great hundred, they're, they're hitting 300 and more, and then suddenly it drops down.

You know, they're lucky to get 200 or, or just slightly below it, and you hear of the quote yips unquote. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And something's happened to them. They, they've, they've lost something. What do you work with, with athletes who, who are going through something like that at the . . . 

Dr. J: Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

 I think of Al, you know Altuve, when, when the Astros,, being in Texas here, and what I love to watch, I always tell my boys, you know, always watch the best of the best, you know, and really listen , of course they're 14, 15 and they're gonna do what they wanna do, but.

, I especially like to listen to the, the best athletes in the world because they're giving you the secrets to their success. They're telling you, they're giving you the answers, right? And so, like everyone, we should be emulating and modeling the best, whether it's physically or mentally. And, I remember Altuve was, you know, I, I don't even like the word struggling because when you say good or bad or struggle, now you're putting your.

[00:13:00] You're doing judgment and baseball, there's no room for that because you can go one for 10 and eight for eight. It's in the matter of like overnight. You have to stay the course. And that's the problem is, you know, people say, oh, I'm, they wanna change things. And you don't. You do the same. You, if you have the same routine, whether you're in the hole and you're on deck and you're stepping the box, right?

And you have a lot of confidence, you make your adjustments, you may make a different, you may make, a little bit of an adjustment , okay, but not change everything, right? But you still have to walk in that box with the same like, I'm gonna rip it the same, like, we got this.

I own you. That confidence has to be there all the time. And even if your confidence is there all the time, you can still go, 0, for eight. So when now Altuve, said he was one, he was one for, you know, 15. Yeah. But then he says, that's baseball. You know, that's baseball. And, then you know, it's not a struggle, it's reality.

 But you don't change anything. You just keep going, grinding out, you know, and you stay, you stay confident. You keep working. You know, [00:14:00] you keep practicing. , but then you don't press, so you don't go in the box going, I have to get a hit, or I need to get a hit. And so, and then all of a sudden he hits the game winner to win the, the, the whole thing, the World Series or, you know, the game ending hit, or Kobe Bryant says, you know, I remember I, I cut this outta the newspaper, which was extremely important, an eye-opening.

He says, O, for 15 hits game. So he shot, he didn't even get a shot the whole game, and they hit the game winner. That's a champion right there. Oh yeah. Because when it counted, they did it. So Altuve is saying, stay the course. Like don't freak out, don't panic, don't change everything. And that's the problem in golf and in, you know, especially in golf, everyone starts changing things.

It's like, don't change anything. Just keep doing what you're doing. It'll work 

Mark: well, and, and you hit it right there. I mean, as far as continuity and doing it, you know, and staying. Kind of jumping for a moment. I think it was Joe Maddon. I was reading one of his books and one thing he was talking about, cause you know, he [00:15:00] came up like most of 'em come up as a hitting coach, et cetera.

It's before they ever, long before they become a manager. And then by the time he became a manager in one of the minor leagues, he was watching his own hitting coach, giving this. Batter who had a fantastic style, who was doing really well, he was giving instruction to that batter on how to bat. And Joe's over scratching his head saying, what?

Wait a minute. Come here. Leave that kid alone. 

Dr. J: Leave it alone. Right. And that's okay. So that brings up a good point is when I'm working with a hitter and they're going in the minor league system, they call me cuz they're pissed off because they're all trying to the ego of the coach. They're trying to make these players like them and, and you look at Jeff Bagwell stands, you look at Derek Jeter stands, you look at Gary Sheffield, you look at Tony Gwynn, if they're all, there's no Tony Gwynns, there's no Gary Sheffield.

It's just Gary Sheffield's. Tony Gwynn. That's it. They're individual people and so great coaches [00:16:00] can extract the best from their, in their, that, that player's eyes if they get the ball, you know? in the hole and they're hitting well, why change it? You know, look at shooters like Sean Marion, and they all have different shots.

So I think that that's the issue too, is everyone's trying to change and, and they want people to be like them instead of just letting them get on base. Who cares how they got on base? ? I mean, still work with your craft, but let people be who they are a little. 

Mark: if they've got talent and it's already in place.

Yeah. Why would you modify, you know, like you were saying earlier, you know, little, little bitty tweaks or something if you need to, but if you've got the process in there and they're got it already working, you don't really need to mess with it and mm-hmm. . Yeah. The egos need to stay in the pocket for some of these coaches, but, 

Dr. J: well, another one that I find out I work with like a lot of college guys.

is the idea of the OPS and long ball. And I had a guy, and I was trained to be a level swing like my dad, you know, grew [00:17:00] up with Mickey Mantle and that was, and he always say, Julie level, swing level. Swing level, swing level swing. So I used to have it on my batting glove, you know, sea ball level swing, you know, very simple.

And and now, and then I had a guy go to community college and he was, we got him to the point where he was super confident and just ripping, you know, huge dude, six foot four left. and the coach is like, no, we need more of an uppercut. You're not gonna make it unless you hit the ball over the fence. Not these little doubles here.

And, and I'm like thinking, what is wrong? ? Like the guy is in the zone, he's hitting over 300. He's lacing the ball. Low. Why are we all of a sudden now have the launch angle and it messed with him, you know, so, and I was raised small ball all the way, like find a way to get a, get the run in right. So you know, now everything is crazy.

My dad, we were in South Florida and it was spring training cuz you know, south Florida is the Mecca in Arizona and they did the shift and I'm with my parents and my dad and I are like old school baseball. Hit it where they're [00:18:00] not. And of course there's a huge shift and my dad is pissed. He's like, just punt it down the line.

Just, you know, get on base. So I think that that's part of it now 

You know, like the, the, the game of baseball to me is bigger, is better, and I don't believe that. I always tell, you know, find a way to get on. And so even when I work with the younger kids, you know, everyone wants long ball and I'm like, now you're also putting more pressure on the hitter.

Mark: Oh gosh. Come on boys and girls. I just wanna scratch my head. Right? I gotta tell you, Dr. J, I'm looking at some of that and you, I'll, I'll take somebody who gets on base and bats, you know, RBI any day of the week. . Home runs you . They're fun. Okay? They're, they're fun. There's no doubt about it.

Okay. One of my favorite players, I'm, I'm Tampa Bay fan. Not, not no surprise there, but Yandy Diaz. I love watching this man at bat because he goes [00:19:00] up there and there's no telling what he's gonna do. He's measuring each pitch as it comes in. He's got a sense of where that box is for the strike zone. , he strikes out rarely, you know, most of the time he's either walking or he gets a hit.

Mm-hmm. . Exactly. He, he's, he's a man who sees beyond that. But, you know, he adapts to what's coming up there, and I can't imagine anybody going to sign Yandy and say, Yandy, you need to hit more outta the park. You, you got the strength to do it, but you need to hit more outta the park. I'm sorry. Did he get on base last time?

Right, because the pitcher was just not hitting the zone.

Thank you Yandy. And did the guy advances from, from first to second when Yandy did that? 

Mm-hmm. . 

Thank you Yandy. Now there, there are coaches out there, like you said, who will, will argue with this and certainly more at a minor league level. And that takes me to another topic because recently.

You did a podcast where you were talking about bad coaching, . Oh boy. . Right. [00:20:00] I think we've all known them. You know, even as an athlete, I'm sure there were. Mm-hmm. . There were people you're going along the way, say, good lord, you know? Yeah. I've gotta find my own mindset with this and right. One quick story from me in Little League, there was this team that did so great.

There was like, you know, one of these places where you got all the big parades and 20 or 30 teams, and this one coach, he had such a great results each year, but he also stood up and screamed and shout at each one of those players and they'd go home crying, you know, and mm-hmm. . I, I don't know how he had any kind of success, but I always felt for those players and, and I thought, , what, what can we expect of a coach?

What does a good coach bring? Certainly at a level like that? 

Dr. J: Well, I mean the underage of 12, the, the dropout rate for little league baseball, 80% dropout because the poor coach is under age of 12. And that's research based as evidence-based. So obviously we're failing the the little [00:21:00] league baseball players.

I think what happens, , you know, parents get overly attached to winning in their ego. And so whenever you, whenever you coach out of like, too much emotion, that's an issue right there. Okay? Because yelling, I mean yelling, first of all, it's kind of common sense that you perform better when you're not having a lot of pressure on you.

And so if a coach is yelling at you, like, come on, you gotta get a hit. That's not the necessarily the best approach, but you hear it all the. , you know, so I think we've, we, we perform better when we know our coaches really believe in us. And I think it's very common sense. Like when you think common sense, positivity, relaxation, trust breeds great performance, but the coaches actually do the opposite of that, you know?

And the problem too is because right now, especially like at the, the high school or college or professional level, everybody's there taking your. and that can cause a little bit of an issue because [00:22:00] then if you're not performing someone else's there to take your spot. But I think at the, I think great coaches understand that you're gonna make physical errors, you're always gonna make a physical error like you're always, and so that's my biggest problem is that coaches expect perfection, when you're not getting it, like in baseball and you know, it could take a bad hop and, and, and boom, you know, or you can hit the back of your glove. So a good coach should not even say a whole lot cuz Great. Cuz the players already know what they did wrong. , you know, so negativity, pressure, that's why kids are dropping out left and right is because it's not fun and, and baseball and all sports should be fun.

And when you're playing fun with for fun and you're enjoying it, great coaches can be intense. They can be like, come on, we got this, or bring it, or let's go. But they don't have to be abusive, and that's the difference. You can be intense, but positive. . 

Mark: I like that because unfortunately in this particular coach, his intensity [00:23:00] was not positive.

He was the kind of guy you'd see him pointing a finger, getting in the face of the child where practically spittle was getting on him. And he, he was a big imposing man on top of that. So right. Let me ask, I mean, cuz you did say you got parents, you've got agents and you've got players coming in. well, are coaches themselves seeing that they need some kind of help?

Are they, are we seeing coaches at all coming in and, and seeing yourself or others for some guidance? 

Dr. J: Well, here's the, the, the problem too, when you're getting in the collegiate world is if you don't win, you don't stay. And so athletic directors also, this is a systemic problem because, you know, parents and athletic directors and the the leaders organization also have to understand the mentality of trust and building.

And that takes time. and, but if the athletic directors too are very much like, oh, well you're not winning . That means that means that you're not doing well. That's not true. . You could be improving and not winning, but there's pressure for their jobs. If they're [00:24:00] not winning, you know, they get fired, then where do they go?

Yeah. And so I think the coaches are projecting some of their pressures onto the kids, and a lot of times, even parents who do. . They're un they have unresolved issues mentally, , you know, they, a lot of 'em will go, oh, if, what if I only had this? I would've been this. Yeah. If I only had my parents or if only had privates.

And so then they're, they're totally, and then I get the 14 year old commits. They're 14 years old. They're already committing to D one. , and then they're having so much pressure on them, and then they have all the social piece of, you know oh, are you really that good? And, and then so there's, it's, it's really rough across the board.

But I think pr, I think that coaches a lot of kids sometimes burn out. Or even in, in minor leagues, they burnout because the coaches are, they're ugly or they're negative. , we all as human and you and me and everybody needs a little love. We need a little thank you. We need a little appreciation. It goes a long way.[00:25:00] 

Mark: Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. And, and, and Dr. Jay, you know, to me, I know a boss I had years ago, he had kind of a quiet support. He would give very little guidance, and the team, he had the best team working for him in that business. There were several other managers around, but people would come to him and they would also try to poach his, his employees.

That's, that's how good he was. And the one time he got critical with me and he said, I'm, I'm disappointed. Oh my gosh. There was like a load of bricks on my back, but he got me motivated without screaming or shouting because when he did need to give, you know, more pointed direction, it, you know, it was there if, if he had been sort of a boss where he was shouting at me all the time telling me this, that, or other, I would've just found another job.

But he helped me with a course correction at that point.. . 

Dr. J: Yeah. I mean, actions speak a louder than words. You know, like I, my kids have been playing with the same [00:26:00] baseball team since they're nine. Pretty much for the last five years. And this is the last season. My coach has my twin boys and they're, they're 14 U baseball.

And our coach, he's very calm. He doesn't, he, and, and you know, I taught, he was on actually my, the podcast. and he goes, he goes even keel. He goes, because when you make a mistake, you gotta be even keel and you play better when you're focused. So he doesn't really get on them a lot. And when, and his actions are, he's always early to every practice.

He's there early. And like you said, he's a man. He's soft spoken, but he demands commitment. He has routines, he's there early, and that shows you care just by the nature of your actions. . 

Mark: Absolutely. And you know, that is something that I think we all look for. Like, so whether in coaching or or, or in our, in our life, anywhere, just as you were saying.

I want to also talk about when you're dealing with young people mm-hmm. , and like you said, they're one [00:27:00] 14 years old and they're looking for him for division one. It's like good gravy, man. The expectations. Mm-hmm. , I, I mean, I know what very little I know about psychology. I know as we age, as we grow, you know, there's changes in our brain and how we deal with things.

I can't imagine a 14 year old dealing with, trying to even comprehend what's going on there. 

Dr. J: No, I mean, that's why I don't think any kid should verbally commit at any age. In fact, great coaches would say, wait as long as possible. You know, I was talking to my sons for years. I love tennis, and tennis isn't as popular.

I love baseball, but tennis is such an underrated sport, you know? And my kids are, they played baseball and basketball and now they're playing tennis and now they're enjoying tennis. And you know, we have to make some decisions. , but kids change their mind all the time. I also, and going back to, to youth sports, years ago when we grew up, I played three varsity sports in in high school we played a lot of, a lot of sports.

We cross trained and. . I [00:28:00] do think that pros and cons, number one, I didn't have the technical advancements that nowadays everyone has. I mean, first of all, we didn't have the internet, right? So now the internet, you can learn your swing by YouTube. You don't even have to go to a private lesson. So the, the problem though is, is that because we have so many resources, , it causes more pressure because it's almost like you gotta start in diapers practically, because as you get to 14, these kids have been playing club for years, and so you have to really, as a parent, balance out like overuse.

So like, . I, I'm doing a little bit of like, I want my kids to play all the sports, even at 14, where like some of the parents have their kids doing only baseball. Yeah. And I've seen 14 years old with Tommy John's surgery. 

Mark: Geez, Pete. Oh my gosh. Dr. Jay. That's, that's just crazy. It. Mm-hmm. . I wanna stop here and remind people too, the podcast you have, it's getting gritty with Dr.

J. So learn a lot more about this there as. And yeah, that's something I was kind [00:29:00] of talking to you before we got started too, is getting gritty and you're talking about mental toughness. Mm-hmm. , but also being able to have some balance about the journey of life. You know, not, I think sometimes I think of people who of tough guys I, that I knew that they're just putting up this wall and like this is how I'm gonna be and I'm gonna handle it like this.

And, and I feel like sometimes they could just crack. 

Dr. J: Oh. . Absolutely. I do work with I'm very proud. I work with some vets who suffered for PTSD and we, we talk in our meetings that crying should be the new sexy instead of muscles. Because when you, you know, guys and girls, whether you're a muscle builder or you're a champion athlete or a bodybuilder, or if you're from a different country, we're all the same, you know, and you, you have to be able to know who you are, you gotta know your swing very well, and you not, you gotta know your emotions very well. And if you push everything inside and you don't know what you're feeling that's a problem you, you got. If you're on the mound and you're gasped, [00:30:00] you know, you gotta be able to say, okay, I'm tired right now, or you gotta know it.

You gotta know when you're angry and you're frustrated and you have to be able to express it in order to fix it. You. . So the, you know, self-awareness leads to change. And so if you keep everything inside and think you're all tough you know, it doesn't usually win because that causes a lot of depression, anxiety, and a lot of burnout.

But I think that our culture and like the machismo culture, the old school culture is if you tell your coach, I'm burnt out, or I have my arm hurts, you're weak. Suck it up. Yeah. And that leads to more burnout and injuries as well. 

Mark: I, I can certainly see that. being able for a coach or a manager to be able to communicate effectively with their player and to give them some guidance.

That's key. And one thing I'm thinking about now too is I know the challenge sometimes with language, I think about 30% of MLB players come from other countries. If we look at Dominican Republic, there are [00:31:00] probably about 10% of all MLB players. Boy, that should be an interesting World Baseball Classic, but

Yeah, true. I was glad to see. I know what in some cases well, the Rays, a couple years ago, Wander Franco, young, young man coming in, you talk about commitments early on, they, they were there and he probably had some challenges, but the Rays brought along Nelson Cruz. Here's a man who spoke the same language.

A man who's lived the game for many years and someone who could probably give perspective, somebody that Franco may have, you know, re you know, revered himself. And I thought to me. I don't know that that was the thinking behind the race, but I thought what a great idea to, to bring somebody in like that to, you know, not necessarily to come in and tell Wanda Franco what to do, but to be there for him to, to lead by example.

Dr. J: Mm-hmm. . Well, yeah, I mean, to mentor him and to be there for him and, well, that's the whole idea that the more teams that are more cohesive, , you know, and that's an issue [00:32:00] like with women's sports, the team, you know, like, we come, we can come around and talk and like do team building, but it's all like, almost like the guys, like, how do we create a brotherhood, you know, of like play for each other.

And you know, I think that like if a guy is struggling, yeah, I would probably go to my, I would say, listen, you know, Nelson. Like, hey, talk to him. Go to dinner with him. Include him, take him, you know, make dinner, go hang out, be there for him. Support him. that would make him feel that would break him in like a glove a lot quicker.

And the more he feels included and supported and cared for, the better he's going to play probably. So that's another piece, you know, is feeling trust and empathy and kindness and playing for each other. You know, when I interviewed Matt Adams in my podcast, they talked a lot about the Nationals when. , the Nationals, when they won the World Series, they would, they were not good at the beginning.

I mean, they were like struggling, you know, and they all went into the dugout, I mean, into the clubhouse and say Guys like, let's have fun. Like we know how to play baseball. [00:33:00] Like, let's enjoy the game. And as they started enjoying the game and just playing game by game and one at bat at a time, you know, yes.

It's like, yes, we wanna win the World Series, but that's like a magnet. . But that's, that's, that could be pressure. We're not here just to win. We're here to win one game at a time. Yep. We're gonna win at that at a time. Win one pitch at a time and then you just pass it back and then you just have fun. And if you stay in the present and you play for a bigger meaning of the gratitude and the enjoyment of the game, then all of a sudden the winning kind of takes care of itself.

So they had, but it was great that they had this come meeting going, okay guys, let's reflect what's not working. and let's change it. That's evolution. Amen. But I think that we get a lot of, or old school organizations that are doing the same thing over and over again. And I'm not gonna call out the Rangers because the Rangers haven't won a whole lot.

Or you know, the teams that are having won, unless we can name it, that's a problem. That's not the players, you know? And [00:34:00] I don't care, like people can say it's the culture. It is the culture, it is the leadership because these are great, these are major league baseball players. So to me it's the leadership and the culture.

And if you have a, create a culture of relaxation and trust and fun, you will start to improve. And that's just, that's how I feel. That's why I know the mental game is everything. 

Mark: Oh, you sold me. I mean, I believed it anyway, but I mean, , I know watching the game, I love dugout shots. because to me, I'm seeing if there's some camaraderie out there.

If there's somebody that's cutting up, if there's a positive energy happening there, right? Because I know if that's going on, one their mind is in the game, they're probably a healthier person. . Yes. And they're probably more cohesive as a team. They're still gonna, you still gotta see moments where one 'em most shot at the other.

Like, what the heck were you doing out there? Oh yeah. That's human nature. But all in all, , when you see that kind of camaraderie, I, I've seen dugouts where they're all almost silent . [00:35:00] Right. You'd think they were in the middle of a funeral procession or something. 

Dr. J: Exactly. Exactly. And I, and I have quotes are really big for me, and I quoted this, fun is freedom because when you're having fun, your instincts take over.

Mark: That sounds right to me. . 

Dr. J: We have a long way to go. But these are the conversations that I'm glad, Mark, that you're bringing me on for, because it really is all about the mental game. It's all about fun, it's all about trust. It's all about belief. It's about being grateful. I think about the greed and the money.

I really think that's caused a little bit of a problem. Yeah. You know, because it's putting a lot more pressure, I think, even on our athletes. 

Mark: Well, athletes who, who started with fun of the game and then have to feel like they're charging for money is a, is a whole other thing. Sometime on another show I'd like to talk to you about that path of a, of an athlete.

Whether it be somewhere from the Dominican Republican Academy team there . [00:36:00] As they're coming through, , the expectations the, well, even from the Dominican Republican language barriers, all these impediments that can, well, they could be impediments for a young player. So that I'd like to do on a future show with you maybe.

Sure. But right now tell us a little bit more about what you're doing at the Texas Center. . 

Dr. J: Yeah. So God, I've been in, I've been in the same office since 2007 and the majority in San Antonio, Texas, we don't have a lot of many professional teams. . Like we have the Spurs, but we don't have, we have the Missions.

We, I think the, some of the Spurs bought the Missions. I. Think there's AA. So I've worked, I think the Brewers, I've done a little work with some of the players there, but typically athletes, a lot of co, a lot of college and high school baseball players, tennis players, pretty much all athletes. Come to see me, you know, I always interview the parents.

I ask the athletes to tell me about and, and I like the fact that I'm a clinical sports psychologist. . There's a lot of like sports performance people that just come in and they just wanna talk performance. And I think that's [00:37:00] missing the boat too. Yeah. , because they, these people are, you know, these are people you know, and so I wanna know who they are.

I wanna know their career identity. I wanna know what, what they enjoy other than the sport. I wanna know why they're doing their sport. I wanna talk to the parents. I wanna talk about their communication. I wanna talk about physical and mental health. For example, A really great, great example is for, you talked about the, you mentioned the Yips.

Well, I know a lot about the Yips because there's a lot of circumstances. Mackey Sasser from the Mets. He struggled with getting the ball from the catchers, the catcher to the pitcher. He was a catcher. Steve Sacks and Chuck Knoblauch both I believe were second basemans for the Yankees. Had a hard time getting the ball from second base to the pitcher, I mean to first base, and some of the pitchers underarm underhanded from pitcher to first because, I do think that the thinking component slides in, right, and they start overthinking [00:38:00] things. Oh yeah. The fear, the fear of failure kicks in and there's almost like more of an embarrassment factor that if you overthrow the pitcher versus a shortstop, gunning it over the first baseman's head. Okay. So it becomes pressure.

It can be injured. . And and that can lock that arm to be very tight. Yeah. So one of the guys I work with, let me give you an example. The parents said that he, he has a little bit of the yips, and I don't like to use the word the yips because I feel like it's a condition and I, and I think it's more of like permanent.

So I don't really care for the word, but it's a word. So he came in and I'm, I've been doing this very long time. I've played softball for many years until I was 38, competitively and little league. . I've had arm injuries. I've dislocated my shoulder. I've had shoulder pain. So he's a full, he's also a quarterback, this guy.

So he's a quarterback in a baseball pitcher, and he has tryouts coming up within a week. And he comes into my office and as I'm interviewing, [00:39:00] he's telling me that he, you know, he's really struggling, getting to the ball, to the target. And I asked him, I said, do you have any shoulder pain? Like, do you have any?

And he is like, yeah. , and, and I'm like, Hmm. So how long have you been having for a while? So I said and he's talking to me about it and I, I said, I think you may have a slap tear in your rotator cuff. , I said, but the only way to definitively know that is you need to get an M R I. And I said, I do not recommend you going into that baseball tryout in a few days because if you go with an arm injury, you're gonna show off your arm, you're gonna gun it and you can really make it worse.

And I said, this is, you know, your junior year, you have time. I go, you really wanna think long term about this and you really should get yourself checked. And I brought the mom into the session and I said, listen, my instincts and my gut instinct. is that I think your son has an injury that needs to be looked at immediately, and I don't recommend him going to that tryout and that's probably causing his psychological [00:40:00] issues.

It's a physical issue that he's now turned. It made it psychological, but I think that everybody told him to suck it up. and he's desensitized himself through pain. He thinks that pain is normal, the long story short, he goes to the doctor I recommended, he has a slap tear and within a week he's having surgery and they, and they, and I said, don't come back to me until that shoulder is really healed and then we'll talk more.

And the mom thanked me because they're coming to a psychologist and it, you know, it's, it's medical. So I think there's a lot of components that can impact the the yips. You know, we're short arming it. . 

Mark: , I think it was important part that you mentioned is from your own experience as an athlete in the things that you've experienced since somebody.

Yes. Okay. I'm glad you're a positive imaging coach and you're, you're doing those things or you're, you're doing something, you know, somebody comes in for well, whatever, work with their mentality, but. , when you talk to a person, you're not looking at just turning a key. You're seeing relationships of what's going on [00:41:00] with them and to be able to define that relationship or at least say, Hmm, looks like there's something here that, that requires further analysis.

there's probably not enough of that going on. 

Dr. J: No . There's not a lot enough going on. Yeah. It's complicated. 

Mark: Well, Dr. Jay, I wanna thank you. Is there any other things you, any messages or something you wanna leave with our audience. 

Dr. J: I think, that we need to tell our audience that, they should be doing more, whether it's reading the books, reading hitting books or mental mentality of hitting or pitching.

Ask, you know, supporting our kids not giving them all the answers, , but we need to spend more time developing the mental game and not just the physical game. . And it's okay. And I always tell people that going to a sports psychology consultant is just another coach. We're we're just coaches. And so we need to really I really wanna push that agenda today is support your athletes.

Give them every resource they can and have no regrets, especially with your kids. 

Mark: Wow. Well, We've [00:42:00] been speaking with Doctor Julie Wiernik of "Gettin Gritty with Dr. J". If you haven't checked out her podcast, please do so. I think it's very illuminating.

She has some great guests on there and certainly some great topics. Julie, thanks again for joining us here today on BaseballBiz On Deck, and 

Dr. J: I enjoyed it. 

Mark: I look forward to talking with you again real soon. 

Dr. J: All right, thanks, Mark. 

Mark: All right.